Thanks for the post! Sure seems like an important topic. Unnecessarily grumpy thoughts to follow —
First, I feel unsure what you’re imagining this ‘deep democracy’ thing is an answer to. You write, “If you want the long-term future to go well by the lights of a certain value function[…]” Who is “you” here?
An individual? If so, it seems clear to me that the best way to bring about things I care about, holding fixed others’ strategies, is indeed to get my AI(s) to pursue things I care about, and clearly not best or desirable from any almost individual’s point of view (certainly not an equilibrium) to get their AI(s) to pursue some kind of democratic conglomeration of everybody’s interests.
An AI company? If so, I imagine (at least by default) that the companies are just trying to serve demand with more and better models, complying with regulation, and maybe proactively adding in side constraints and various revenue-sacrificing behaviours for prosocial or reputational reasons. It’s not obvious to me that there comes a point where the executives sit down to discuss: “what set of values should we align AI to?”, where the candidate answers are various (pseudo-)moral views.
In the case where we’re considering a company considering the target of alignment, I wonder if my confusion comes from starting from different assumptions about how ‘unitary’ their product is. One outcome, which I currently view as a default, is just an extrapolation of the status quo today: companies train base models, then those base models are post-trained and broken up into various specialised variants, which can in turn be fine-tuned for specific use cases, and all eventually served for a million different uses. On this picture, it’s not clear how much influence an AI company can have on the moral vision of the models they ultimately serve. The main reason is just that the vast majority of what these AIs are doing, in my mind, are just helpful or economically useful tasks based on (direct or delegated) specific human instructions, not following a grand impartial moral plan. And if the models are too eager to break ranks and pursue an abstract moral vision, people won’t use them. This is what runs through my head when people talk about “the AGI” — what is that?
Of course, there are some reasons for thinking the AI landscape will be more unitary, and this picture could be wrong. Maybe a corporate monopoly, maybe a centralised (state-led) project, maybe a coup. Let’s consider the extreme case where “you” are a lab exec, you hold total power over the world through some single alignable AI system, and you face the decision of what to tell it to do. Here I’d zoom in on the part where you say it would be “uncooperative, undemocratic, coercive” to implement your values. One rejoinder here is to make the point that, AI aside, you should (i) be morally uncertain, (ii) interested in figuring out what’s good through deliberation, and (iii) care about other people. So if the hegemon-leader had a reasonable moral view, directly implementing it through an AI hegemon doesn’t strike me as obviously worse in expectation than ceding influence. If the hegemon-leader has a moral view which is obviously bad, then I don’t think it’s very interesting that a democratic thing seems better.
In any case, I agree that the main reasons against the hegemon-leader directly implementing their vision of what’s good. But (at a gut level) this is, as you say, because it would be illegitimate, uncooperative, etc., not to mention practically likely to fail (we haven’t tested global totalitarianism, but most new political experiments fail). And I think democractic-but-hegemonic AI probably fares pretty badly by those lights, too, compared to actually just ceding power or not becoming a hegemon in the first place?
I do feel like I’m being unfair or missing something here. Maybe another reading is: look, anarchy is bad, especially when everyone has an army of AIs to carry out their bidding, and everyone is rich enough to start caring about scary, scope-sensitive, ideologically-motivated outcomes. The result is a bunch of winner-take-all conflict, and general destructive competition. So we need some governance system (national and/or global?) which curbs this destruction, but also does the best job possible aggregating people’s values. And this is what “deep democracy” should be doing.
The part of this I agree with is that, as far as we have voting systems, they could be much improved post-AGI, in a million ways. Thumbs up to people imagining what those tools and approaches could look like, to make democratic political procedures more flexible, effective, rich in information, great at finding win-win compromises, and so on.
But there’s a part that feels underspecified, and a part that I’m more sceptical of. The part that feels underspecified is what “deep democracy” actually is. The way you’ve phrased it, and I’m being a bit unfair here, is close to being good by definition (“deeply capturing and being responsive to every single person’s values” — I mean, sure!) I expect this is one of those cases where, once forced to actually specify the system, you make salient the fact that any particular system has to make tradeoffs (cf Arrow, though that’s a bit overblown).
The part I’m more sceptical of is that the anarchic alternative is chaotic and destructive, and the best way to aggregate preferencesis via setting up some centralised monopoly on force, and figuring out what centralised process it follows. Consider the international ~anarchy. War is a really unattractive option, even for neighboring expansionary states, so in theory (and often in practice) compromise is virtually always preferred to war. And that’s the hard (fully anarchic) case — smaller-scale conflict is avoided because of criminal and civil laws which make it very not worth it.
Finally, I’d suggest that, in a sense, we have a way to allocate resources and efforts towards what people want in a granular, deep, preference-aggregating way: trade. My sense is to think about this as (even today) the main means by which society is arranged to make everyone better-off; and then consider cases where centralised processes (like voting) are necessary or valuable. One example, which seems potentially very important, is if something like “moral worth” becomes even more divorced from wealth. Of course in designing a democratic process you don’t have perfectly neutral ground to stand on; you have to make a call on who gets to partake. But you can give more of a voice to people who are otherwise practically totally disenfranchised because they lack resources; while the ultra-wealthy otherwise would dominate outcomes. That’s already an issue and could become a bigger issue, but does suggest an alternative answer to the question you’re asking, which is (potentially a lot of) wealth redistribution.
If value is a power law or similarly distributed, then you have a high chance of at least capturing some of the stuff that is astronomically more valuable than everything else, rather than losing out on this stuff entirely.
Of course there are a bunch of methods in social choice which do this, like quadratic voting; though it’s notable that most electoral democracies are not good examples, and anything like “go with the majority while protecting the rights of the minority” seems apt to highly underrate cases where some voters think that a particular issue is astronimically higher in stakes than others think. But this is also a case where I don’t think there’s an especially neutral, non-theory-laden approach for how to recognise how and when to give people’s views more weight because (intuitively) they think some issue is higher stakes. Then again, I think this is a general problem, not a specific issue with designing democratic methods.
Ok sorry for the chaotically written thoughts, I think they probably understate how much I’m a fan of this line of thinking. And your comments in reply to this were clarifying and made me realise I was in fact a bit confused on a couple points. Thanks again for writing.
Thanks very much for the added last four paragraphs! We’re in strong agreement re: trade being a great way to approximate granular, deep preference aggregation, particularly if you have a background of economic equality.
I’m excited to read the linked section of No Easy Eutopia. I agree that there’s no fully neutral way to aggregate people’s preferences and preserve cardinality. But I do think there are ways that are much more neutral, and that command much broader consent, and that they can be a big improvement over alternative mechanisms.
No problem on the chaotically written thoughts, to be fair to you my post was (due to its length) very unspecific. And that meant we could hammer out more of the details in the comments, which seems appropriate.
Always appreciate your “normal technology” foil! It’s shaped my views a lot. One simple thought that you foreshadow is: we’ll have some laws about what AIs can do (can they harm animals?) and we’ll have new ways to decide on these laws enabled by AI technology. This could be a kind of discontinuity where a lot of change could happened, and where we could do things in a different and better way.
I foreshadow a few other options, like nationalization and democratization of AI, which I expect will happen *to some degree*, but likely not that much. If you have something more singleton shaped, where one lab is leading everyone else, maybe because Google or Nvidia has so much more compute, this kind of outcome looks much more likely.
Of course, all the labs say things about democratic inputs into AI model specs and are trying stuff to this end, and these could be deeper or shallow. But I share your skepticism that this is actually going to happen in any meaningful way...
You might find my response to Michael’s comment helpful re: from whose perspective this makes sense. The classic idea of bargaining theory and formal defenses of democracy is that it’s in most everyone’s rational self interest because it expands the Pareto frontier, eliminating arbitrary dictatorship, avoiding wasteful races, and getting people positive sum options better than the status quo. Or see CB’s remarks: it’s really unlikely that a utilitarian thing could happen, but this might actually work! And it gets a lot of what we want, and much more than things that aren’t sensitive to niche values like utilitarianism.
Re: what deep democracy, I like Nash bargaining! Kalai-Smorodinsky also seems fine. Quadratic voting with AI agents finding compromise solutions seems like a good approximation.
Of course, all the labs say things about democratic inputs into AI model specs and are trying stuff to this end, and these could be deeper or shallow.
Ah, that’s a good point! And then I guess both of as are in some kind of agreement that this kind of stuff (deliberate structured initatives to inject some democracy into the models) ends up majorly determining outcomes from AGI.
>Re: what deep democracy, I like Nash bargaining!
I find this somewhat confusing, because elsewhere you say the kind of deep democracy you are imagining “is basically equivalent to enlightened preference utilitarianism”. But the Nash solution is basically never the utility-maximising solution! You can even set things up so that the Nash solution is an arbitrarily small fraction, in terms of total welfare, between the disagreement point and the utility-maxising optimum. I do think there is an interesting and important question of how good, in practice, the Nash outcome is compared to the utility-maximing outcome, maybe it’s great ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And then I guess both of as are in some kind of agreement that this kind of stuff (deliberate structured initatives to inject some democracy into the models) ends up majorly determining outcomes from AGI.
Yeah I think this is plausible and a good point of agreement, plus a promising leverage point. But I do kind of expect normal capitalist incentives will dominate anything like this, and that governments won’t intervene except for issues of safety, as you seem to.
I find this somewhat confusing
Nash is formally equivalent to the sum of log utilities (preferences) in the disagreement set, so it’s a prioritarian transformation of preference utilitarianism over a particular bargain.
I agree that it can come drastically far apart from totalist utilitarianism. What I actually like about it is that it’s a principled way to give everyone’s values equal weight that preserves the cardinality in people’s value functions and is arbitrarily sensitive to changes in individuals’ values, and that it doesn’t require interpersonally comparable utilities, making it very workable. I also like that it maximizes a certain weighted sum of efficiency and equality. As an antirealist who thinks I have basically unique values, I like that it guarantees that my values have some sway over the future.
One thing I don’t like about Nash is that it’s a logistic form of prioritarianism, and over preferences rather than people. That means that my strongest preferences don’t get that much more weight over my weakest preferences. Perhaps for that reason simple quadratic voting does better. It’s in some ways less elegantly grounded, but it’s also more well-understood by the broader world.
I’m seeing the position as a principled way to have a fair compromise across different people’s moral viewpoints, which also happens to do pretty well by the lights of my own values. It’s not attempting to approximate classical utilitarianism directly, but instead to give me some control over the future in the areas that matter the most to me, and thereby allow me to enact classical utilitarianism. There might be better such approaches, but so far this is the one that seems most promising to me at the moment.
Thanks for all this! I agree that something like Nash is appealing for a bunch of reasons. Not least because it’s Pareto efficient, so doesn’t screw people over for the greater good, which feels more politically legitimate. It is also principled, in that it doesn’t require some social planner to decide how to weigh people’s preferences or wellbeing.
My sense, though you know much more about all this, is that Nash bargaining is not well described as a variant of utilitarianism, though I case it’s a grey area.
Maybe I’m realising now that a lot of the action in your argument is not in arguing for the values which guide the future to be democratically chosen, but rather in thikning through which kinds of democratic mechanisms are best. Where plain old majority rule seems very unappealing, but more granular approaches which give more weight to those who care most about a given issue look much better. And (here we agree) this is especially important if you think that the wrong kind of popular future, such as a homogenous majority-determined future, could fall far short of the best future.
Huh, I mean it just is formally equivalent to the sum of log utilities in the bargaining situation! But “utilitarianism” is fuzzy :)
Yes, the idea of finding a preference aggregation mechanism that does much better than modern electoral systems at capturing the cardinality of societal preferences is, I think, really core to what I’m doing here, so I probably should have brought this out a bit more than I did!
Yeah, fair! I guess there’s a broad understanding of utilitarianism, which is “the sum of any monotone or non-decreasing transformation of utilities”, and a narrower understanding, which is “the sum of utilities”. But I want to say that prioritarianism (a version of the former) is an alternative to utilitarianism, not a variant. Not actually sure what prioritarians would say. Also not really an important point to argue about.
Makes sense! There’s some old writers in the utilitarian tradition like James Griffin that define utilitarianism in the broader way, but I do think your articulation is probably more common.
One further thing that might help you get in my brain a bit is that I really am thinking this as more like “what values should we be aiming at to guide the future” and being fairly agnostic on mechanism rather than something like “let’s put democracy in The AGI’s model spec”. And I really am envisioning the argument as something like: “Wow, it really seems like the future is not a utilitarian one. Maybe sensitivity to minority values like utilitarianism is the best thing we can ask for.” — rather than something like “democracy good!” And that could mean a lot of different things. On Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays I think it means avoiding too much centralization and aiming for highly redistributive free market based futures as an approximation of Deep Democracy.
Thanks for the post! Sure seems like an important topic. Unnecessarily grumpy thoughts to follow —
First, I feel unsure what you’re imagining this ‘deep democracy’ thing is an answer to. You write, “If you want the long-term future to go well by the lights of a certain value function[…]” Who is “you” here?
An individual? If so, it seems clear to me that the best way to bring about things I care about, holding fixed others’ strategies, is indeed to get my AI(s) to pursue things I care about, and clearly not best or desirable from any almost individual’s point of view (certainly not an equilibrium) to get their AI(s) to pursue some kind of democratic conglomeration of everybody’s interests.
An AI company? If so, I imagine (at least by default) that the companies are just trying to serve demand with more and better models, complying with regulation, and maybe proactively adding in side constraints and various revenue-sacrificing behaviours for prosocial or reputational reasons. It’s not obvious to me that there comes a point where the executives sit down to discuss: “what set of values should we align AI to?”, where the candidate answers are various (pseudo-)moral views.
In the case where we’re considering a company considering the target of alignment, I wonder if my confusion comes from starting from different assumptions about how ‘unitary’ their product is. One outcome, which I currently view as a default, is just an extrapolation of the status quo today: companies train base models, then those base models are post-trained and broken up into various specialised variants, which can in turn be fine-tuned for specific use cases, and all eventually served for a million different uses. On this picture, it’s not clear how much influence an AI company can have on the moral vision of the models they ultimately serve. The main reason is just that the vast majority of what these AIs are doing, in my mind, are just helpful or economically useful tasks based on (direct or delegated) specific human instructions, not following a grand impartial moral plan. And if the models are too eager to break ranks and pursue an abstract moral vision, people won’t use them. This is what runs through my head when people talk about “the AGI” — what is that?
Of course, there are some reasons for thinking the AI landscape will be more unitary, and this picture could be wrong. Maybe a corporate monopoly, maybe a centralised (state-led) project, maybe a coup. Let’s consider the extreme case where “you” are a lab exec, you hold total power over the world through some single alignable AI system, and you face the decision of what to tell it to do. Here I’d zoom in on the part where you say it would be “uncooperative, undemocratic, coercive” to implement your values. One rejoinder here is to make the point that, AI aside, you should (i) be morally uncertain, (ii) interested in figuring out what’s good through deliberation, and (iii) care about other people. So if the hegemon-leader had a reasonable moral view, directly implementing it through an AI hegemon doesn’t strike me as obviously worse in expectation than ceding influence. If the hegemon-leader has a moral view which is obviously bad, then I don’t think it’s very interesting that a democratic thing seems better.
In any case, I agree that the main reasons against the hegemon-leader directly implementing their vision of what’s good. But (at a gut level) this is, as you say, because it would be illegitimate, uncooperative, etc., not to mention practically likely to fail (we haven’t tested global totalitarianism, but most new political experiments fail). And I think democractic-but-hegemonic AI probably fares pretty badly by those lights, too, compared to actually just ceding power or not becoming a hegemon in the first place?
I do feel like I’m being unfair or missing something here. Maybe another reading is: look, anarchy is bad, especially when everyone has an army of AIs to carry out their bidding, and everyone is rich enough to start caring about scary, scope-sensitive, ideologically-motivated outcomes. The result is a bunch of winner-take-all conflict, and general destructive competition. So we need some governance system (national and/or global?) which curbs this destruction, but also does the best job possible aggregating people’s values. And this is what “deep democracy” should be doing.
The part of this I agree with is that, as far as we have voting systems, they could be much improved post-AGI, in a million ways. Thumbs up to people imagining what those tools and approaches could look like, to make democratic political procedures more flexible, effective, rich in information, great at finding win-win compromises, and so on.
But there’s a part that feels underspecified, and a part that I’m more sceptical of. The part that feels underspecified is what “deep democracy” actually is. The way you’ve phrased it, and I’m being a bit unfair here, is close to being good by definition (“deeply capturing and being responsive to every single person’s values” — I mean, sure!) I expect this is one of those cases where, once forced to actually specify the system, you make salient the fact that any particular system has to make tradeoffs (cf Arrow, though that’s a bit overblown).
The part I’m more sceptical of is that the anarchic alternative is chaotic and destructive, and the best way to aggregate preferencesis via setting up some centralised monopoly on force, and figuring out what centralised process it follows. Consider the international ~anarchy. War is a really unattractive option, even for neighboring expansionary states, so in theory (and often in practice) compromise is virtually always preferred to war. And that’s the hard (fully anarchic) case — smaller-scale conflict is avoided because of criminal and civil laws which make it very not worth it.
Finally, I’d suggest that, in a sense, we have a way to allocate resources and efforts towards what people want in a granular, deep, preference-aggregating way: trade. My sense is to think about this as (even today) the main means by which society is arranged to make everyone better-off; and then consider cases where centralised processes (like voting) are necessary or valuable. One example, which seems potentially very important, is if something like “moral worth” becomes even more divorced from wealth. Of course in designing a democratic process you don’t have perfectly neutral ground to stand on; you have to make a call on who gets to partake. But you can give more of a voice to people who are otherwise practically totally disenfranchised because they lack resources; while the ultra-wealthy otherwise would dominate outcomes. That’s already an issue and could become a bigger issue, but does suggest an alternative answer to the question you’re asking, which is (potentially a lot of) wealth redistribution.
Of course there are a bunch of methods in social choice which do this, like quadratic voting; though it’s notable that most electoral democracies are not good examples, and anything like “go with the majority while protecting the rights of the minority” seems apt to highly underrate cases where some voters think that a particular issue is astronimically higher in stakes than others think. But this is also a case where I don’t think there’s an especially neutral, non-theory-laden approach for how to recognise how and when to give people’s views more weight because (intuitively) they think some issue is higher stakes. Then again, I think this is a general problem, not a specific issue with designing democratic methods.
Ok sorry for the chaotically written thoughts, I think they probably understate how much I’m a fan of this line of thinking. And your comments in reply to this were clarifying and made me realise I was in fact a bit confused on a couple points. Thanks again for writing.
Thanks very much for the added last four paragraphs! We’re in strong agreement re: trade being a great way to approximate granular, deep preference aggregation, particularly if you have a background of economic equality.
I’m excited to read the linked section of No Easy Eutopia. I agree that there’s no fully neutral way to aggregate people’s preferences and preserve cardinality. But I do think there are ways that are much more neutral, and that command much broader consent, and that they can be a big improvement over alternative mechanisms.
No problem on the chaotically written thoughts, to be fair to you my post was (due to its length) very unspecific. And that meant we could hammer out more of the details in the comments, which seems appropriate.
Agree! As I say, I feel much clearer now on your position.
Always appreciate your “normal technology” foil! It’s shaped my views a lot. One simple thought that you foreshadow is: we’ll have some laws about what AIs can do (can they harm animals?) and we’ll have new ways to decide on these laws enabled by AI technology. This could be a kind of discontinuity where a lot of change could happened, and where we could do things in a different and better way.
I foreshadow a few other options, like nationalization and democratization of AI, which I expect will happen *to some degree*, but likely not that much. If you have something more singleton shaped, where one lab is leading everyone else, maybe because Google or Nvidia has so much more compute, this kind of outcome looks much more likely.
Of course, all the labs say things about democratic inputs into AI model specs and are trying stuff to this end, and these could be deeper or shallow. But I share your skepticism that this is actually going to happen in any meaningful way...
You might find my response to Michael’s comment helpful re: from whose perspective this makes sense. The classic idea of bargaining theory and formal defenses of democracy is that it’s in most everyone’s rational self interest because it expands the Pareto frontier, eliminating arbitrary dictatorship, avoiding wasteful races, and getting people positive sum options better than the status quo. Or see CB’s remarks: it’s really unlikely that a utilitarian thing could happen, but this might actually work! And it gets a lot of what we want, and much more than things that aren’t sensitive to niche values like utilitarianism.
Re: what deep democracy, I like Nash bargaining! Kalai-Smorodinsky also seems fine. Quadratic voting with AI agents finding compromise solutions seems like a good approximation.
By the way, for some evidence of lab execs sitting around talking about what ethical theory to align AI to (especially re: Anthropic)...
Ah, that’s a good point! And then I guess both of as are in some kind of agreement that this kind of stuff (deliberate structured initatives to inject some democracy into the models) ends up majorly determining outcomes from AGI.
>Re: what deep democracy, I like Nash bargaining!
I find this somewhat confusing, because elsewhere you say the kind of deep democracy you are imagining “is basically equivalent to enlightened preference utilitarianism”. But the Nash solution is basically never the utility-maximising solution! You can even set things up so that the Nash solution is an arbitrarily small fraction, in terms of total welfare, between the disagreement point and the utility-maxising optimum. I do think there is an interesting and important question of how good, in practice, the Nash outcome is compared to the utility-maximing outcome, maybe it’s great ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah I think this is plausible and a good point of agreement, plus a promising leverage point. But I do kind of expect normal capitalist incentives will dominate anything like this, and that governments won’t intervene except for issues of safety, as you seem to.
Nash is formally equivalent to the sum of log utilities (preferences) in the disagreement set, so it’s a prioritarian transformation of preference utilitarianism over a particular bargain.
I agree that it can come drastically far apart from totalist utilitarianism. What I actually like about it is that it’s a principled way to give everyone’s values equal weight that preserves the cardinality in people’s value functions and is arbitrarily sensitive to changes in individuals’ values, and that it doesn’t require interpersonally comparable utilities, making it very workable. I also like that it maximizes a certain weighted sum of efficiency and equality. As an antirealist who thinks I have basically unique values, I like that it guarantees that my values have some sway over the future.
One thing I don’t like about Nash is that it’s a logistic form of prioritarianism, and over preferences rather than people. That means that my strongest preferences don’t get that much more weight over my weakest preferences. Perhaps for that reason simple quadratic voting does better. It’s in some ways less elegantly grounded, but it’s also more well-understood by the broader world.
I’m seeing the position as a principled way to have a fair compromise across different people’s moral viewpoints, which also happens to do pretty well by the lights of my own values. It’s not attempting to approximate classical utilitarianism directly, but instead to give me some control over the future in the areas that matter the most to me, and thereby allow me to enact classical utilitarianism. There might be better such approaches, but so far this is the one that seems most promising to me at the moment.
Thanks for all this! I agree that something like Nash is appealing for a bunch of reasons. Not least because it’s Pareto efficient, so doesn’t screw people over for the greater good, which feels more politically legitimate. It is also principled, in that it doesn’t require some social planner to decide how to weigh people’s preferences or wellbeing.
My sense, though you know much more about all this, is that Nash bargaining is not well described as a variant of utilitarianism, though I case it’s a grey area.
Maybe I’m realising now that a lot of the action in your argument is not in arguing for the values which guide the future to be democratically chosen, but rather in thikning through which kinds of democratic mechanisms are best. Where plain old majority rule seems very unappealing, but more granular approaches which give more weight to those who care most about a given issue look much better. And (here we agree) this is especially important if you think that the wrong kind of popular future, such as a homogenous majority-determined future, could fall far short of the best future.
Huh, I mean it just is formally equivalent to the sum of log utilities in the bargaining situation! But “utilitarianism” is fuzzy :)
Yes, the idea of finding a preference aggregation mechanism that does much better than modern electoral systems at capturing the cardinality of societal preferences is, I think, really core to what I’m doing here, so I probably should have brought this out a bit more than I did!
Yeah, fair! I guess there’s a broad understanding of utilitarianism, which is “the sum of any monotone or non-decreasing transformation of utilities”, and a narrower understanding, which is “the sum of utilities”. But I want to say that prioritarianism (a version of the former) is an alternative to utilitarianism, not a variant. Not actually sure what prioritarians would say. Also not really an important point to argue about.
Glad to have highlighted the cardinality point!
Makes sense! There’s some old writers in the utilitarian tradition like James Griffin that define utilitarianism in the broader way, but I do think your articulation is probably more common.
One further thing that might help you get in my brain a bit is that I really am thinking this as more like “what values should we be aiming at to guide the future” and being fairly agnostic on mechanism rather than something like “let’s put democracy in The AGI’s model spec”. And I really am envisioning the argument as something like: “Wow, it really seems like the future is not a utilitarian one. Maybe sensitivity to minority values like utilitarianism is the best thing we can ask for.” — rather than something like “democracy good!” And that could mean a lot of different things. On Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays I think it means avoiding too much centralization and aiming for highly redistributive free market based futures as an approximation of Deep Democracy.
Thanks, super useful! And makes me much more clear on the argument / sympathetic to it.