Points (1) and (3) relate to the value of the intervention rather than the value of the life of the beneficiary. If the intervention is less likely to work, or cause negative higher-order outcomes, then we should take that into account in any cost-effectiveness analysis. I think EA is very good at reviewing issues relating to point (1). Addressing point (3) is much trickier, but there is definitely some work out there looking at higher-order effects.
Point (2) relates to the difference between intrinsic and instrumental value (as previously noted by Richard). From a utilitarian perspective, it seems accurate that the economic productivity is an instrumental reason for favouring saving lives in wealthier countries.
However, this is not the only consideration when deciding where to donate. Firstly, it is typically much more expensive to save a life in a wealthy country, precisely because it is a wealthy country with relatively well-funded healthcare. Secondly, there are consequences beyond economic productivity. For example, people in wealthier countries may be more likely to regularly eat factory-farmed animals and contribute to climate change (on the other hand, because they are in a wealthier country with more resources, perhaps they are more likely to help solve these issues while also contributing to them).
>Secondly, there are consequences beyond economic productivity
Agreed, but if you consider these types of effects then it’s obvious to me that donating to a third world country is worse. I mean, just look at the two cultures: the US is objectively better than e.g. Uganda. The average Ugandan is much more likely to engage in much worse behaviors than eating factory-farmed meat. It’s also virtually impossible that they would ever contribute to scientific or technological development. When a reasonable person looks at the US and looks at Uganda and asks “which of these two things do I want more of,” everyone would say the US. This is the kind of analysis that I would expect the EA community to embrace. Their whole purpose is “making the world better through rational analysis.” In what possible way are you making the world better by diverting resources from a good culture to a bad one? Seriously, how do you justify that? Without positing some quasi-religious intrinsic value (which, for the record, I reject) I just don’t see how you can get there.
Ok then you’ve caused me to update my priors in the direction of “EA is an intellectually shallow pseudo-religious irrational cult”. My comment is 100% sincere and I think well posed. If your only response to it is to attack my motives then I think that reflects very poorly on both you and your ideology.
Points (1) and (3) relate to the value of the intervention rather than the value of the life of the beneficiary. If the intervention is less likely to work, or cause negative higher-order outcomes, then we should take that into account in any cost-effectiveness analysis. I think EA is very good at reviewing issues relating to point (1). Addressing point (3) is much trickier, but there is definitely some work out there looking at higher-order effects.
Point (2) relates to the difference between intrinsic and instrumental value (as previously noted by Richard). From a utilitarian perspective, it seems accurate that the economic productivity is an instrumental reason for favouring saving lives in wealthier countries.
However, this is not the only consideration when deciding where to donate. Firstly, it is typically much more expensive to save a life in a wealthy country, precisely because it is a wealthy country with relatively well-funded healthcare. Secondly, there are consequences beyond economic productivity. For example, people in wealthier countries may be more likely to regularly eat factory-farmed animals and contribute to climate change (on the other hand, because they are in a wealthier country with more resources, perhaps they are more likely to help solve these issues while also contributing to them).
>Secondly, there are consequences beyond economic productivity
Agreed, but if you consider these types of effects then it’s obvious to me that donating to a third world country is worse. I mean, just look at the two cultures: the US is objectively better than e.g. Uganda. The average Ugandan is much more likely to engage in much worse behaviors than eating factory-farmed meat. It’s also virtually impossible that they would ever contribute to scientific or technological development. When a reasonable person looks at the US and looks at Uganda and asks “which of these two things do I want more of,” everyone would say the US. This is the kind of analysis that I would expect the EA community to embrace. Their whole purpose is “making the world better through rational analysis.” In what possible way are you making the world better by diverting resources from a good culture to a bad one? Seriously, how do you justify that? Without positing some quasi-religious intrinsic value (which, for the record, I reject) I just don’t see how you can get there.
I’m no longer going to engage with you because this comes across as being deliberately offensive and provocative.
Ok then you’ve caused me to update my priors in the direction of “EA is an intellectually shallow pseudo-religious irrational cult”. My comment is 100% sincere and I think well posed. If your only response to it is to attack my motives then I think that reflects very poorly on both you and your ideology.