EA’s haven’t been as substantially involved in science funding, but it’s a pretty common target for philanthropy. And many people invest in technology, or pursue careers in technology, in the interests of making the world better. My best guess is that these activities have a significantly larger medium term humanitarian impact than aid. I think this is a common view amongst intellectuals in the US. We probably all agree that it’s not a clear case either way.
The story with social science, political advocacy, etc., is broadly similar to the story with technology, though I think it’s less likely to be as good as poverty alleviation (or at least the case is more speculative).
Note that e.g. spending money to influence elections is a pretty common activity, it seems weird to be so skeptical. And while open borders is very speculative, immigration liberalization isn’t. I think the prevailing wisdom is that immigration liberalization is good for welfare, and there are many other technocratic policies in the same boat, where you’d expect money to be helpful.
It seems like this comes down to a distinction between effective altruism, meaning altruism which is effective, and EA referring to a narrower group of organizations and ideas. I am more interested in the former, which may account for my different view on this point. The point of the introduction also depends on who you are talking to and why (I mostly talk with people whose main impact on the world is via their choice of research area, rather than charitable donations; maybe that means I’m not the target audience here).
It seems like this comes down to a distinction between effective altruism, meaning altruism which is effective, and EA referring to a narrower group of organizations and ideas.
I’m happy to go with your former definition here (I’m dubious about putting the label ‘altruism’ onto something that’s profit-seeking, but “high-impact good things” are to be encouraged regardless). My objection is that I haven’t seen anyone make a case that these long-term ideas are cost-effective. e.g.,
My best guess is that these activities have a significantly larger medium term humanitarian impact than aid. I think this is a common view amongst intellectuals in the US. We probably all agree that it’s not a clear case either way.
Has anyone tried to make this case, discussing the marginal impact of an extra technology worker? We’d agree that as a whole, scientific and technological progress are enormously important, and underpin the poverty-alleviation work that we’re comparing these longer-term ideas to. But, e.g., if you go into tech and help create a gadget, and in an alternative world some sort of similar gadget gets released a little bit later, what is your impact?
The answer to that last question might be large in expectation-value terms (there’s a small probability of you making a profoundly different sort of transformative gadget), but I’d like to see someone try to plug some numbers in before it becomes the main entry point for Effective Altruism.
Note that e.g. spending money to influence elections is a pretty common activity, it seems weird to be so skeptical.
When Ben wrote “smarter leaders”, I interpreted it as some sort of qualitative change in the politicians we elect—a dream that would involve changing political party structures so that people good at playing internal power games aren’t rewarded, and instead we get a choice of more honest, clever, and dedicated candidates. If, on the other hand, electing smarter leaders it means donating to your preferred party’s or candidate’s get-out-the-vote campaign… well I would like to see the cost-effectiveness estimate.
(Ben might also be referring to EA’s going into politics themselves, and… fair enough. I doubt it’ll apply to more than a small minority of EA’s, but he only spent a small minority of his post writing about it.)
there are many other technocratic policies in the same boat, where you’d expect money to be helpful.
I think this is reasonable, and expectation-value impact estimates should be fairly tractable here, since policy wonks have often done cost-benefit analyses (leaving only the question of how much marginal donated dollars can shift the probability of a policy being enacted).
Overall I still feel like these ideas, as EA ideas, are in an embryonic stage since they lack cost-effectiveness guestimates.
EA’s haven’t been as substantially involved in science funding, but it’s a pretty common target for philanthropy. And many people invest in technology, or pursue careers in technology, in the interests of making the world better. My best guess is that these activities have a significantly larger medium term humanitarian impact than aid. I think this is a common view amongst intellectuals in the US. We probably all agree that it’s not a clear case either way.
The story with social science, political advocacy, etc., is broadly similar to the story with technology, though I think it’s less likely to be as good as poverty alleviation (or at least the case is more speculative).
Note that e.g. spending money to influence elections is a pretty common activity, it seems weird to be so skeptical. And while open borders is very speculative, immigration liberalization isn’t. I think the prevailing wisdom is that immigration liberalization is good for welfare, and there are many other technocratic policies in the same boat, where you’d expect money to be helpful.
It seems like this comes down to a distinction between effective altruism, meaning altruism which is effective, and EA referring to a narrower group of organizations and ideas. I am more interested in the former, which may account for my different view on this point. The point of the introduction also depends on who you are talking to and why (I mostly talk with people whose main impact on the world is via their choice of research area, rather than charitable donations; maybe that means I’m not the target audience here).
I’m happy to go with your former definition here (I’m dubious about putting the label ‘altruism’ onto something that’s profit-seeking, but “high-impact good things” are to be encouraged regardless). My objection is that I haven’t seen anyone make a case that these long-term ideas are cost-effective. e.g.,
Has anyone tried to make this case, discussing the marginal impact of an extra technology worker? We’d agree that as a whole, scientific and technological progress are enormously important, and underpin the poverty-alleviation work that we’re comparing these longer-term ideas to. But, e.g., if you go into tech and help create a gadget, and in an alternative world some sort of similar gadget gets released a little bit later, what is your impact?
The answer to that last question might be large in expectation-value terms (there’s a small probability of you making a profoundly different sort of transformative gadget), but I’d like to see someone try to plug some numbers in before it becomes the main entry point for Effective Altruism.
When Ben wrote “smarter leaders”, I interpreted it as some sort of qualitative change in the politicians we elect—a dream that would involve changing political party structures so that people good at playing internal power games aren’t rewarded, and instead we get a choice of more honest, clever, and dedicated candidates. If, on the other hand, electing smarter leaders it means donating to your preferred party’s or candidate’s get-out-the-vote campaign… well I would like to see the cost-effectiveness estimate.
(Ben might also be referring to EA’s going into politics themselves, and… fair enough. I doubt it’ll apply to more than a small minority of EA’s, but he only spent a small minority of his post writing about it.)
I think this is reasonable, and expectation-value impact estimates should be fairly tractable here, since policy wonks have often done cost-benefit analyses (leaving only the question of how much marginal donated dollars can shift the probability of a policy being enacted).
Overall I still feel like these ideas, as EA ideas, are in an embryonic stage since they lack cost-effectiveness guestimates.