If you want to get rid of something, you should first try to make sure that it’s not importantly load-bearing first;
I’d be interested in trying to figure this out (maybe through a survey).
What value do different groups in the community get from various kinds of experiences in EA spaces?
For example, I’m curious how most women would weigh being in an EA space (including EAGs, local EA events, EA houses, EA camps and training events etc)
a) that lets them access healthy professional networks free from the tensions of inappropriate* sexual/romantic advances
against
b) being in an EA space where they are able to date EAs.
(There is a tradeoff here.)
I am also curious if men in the community have an opposing view—if so, it might be important to think about how the existing state of the community (that may have been shaped by the views of the majority gender) may make it less attractive to women currently in or considering joining the community.
(This example is obviously hypothetical but I do have a suspicion that a greater percentage of women would weigh a) higher than b) )
Similarly, I am also curious about how different locations/EA organizations/cause area sub groups weigh these choices.
*example of inappropriate—young EA job seekers being propositioned by potential bosses/seniors in their field after making it clear to them that they were looking for job opportunities/contacts/mentoring in that field.
Yeah, that would be interesting. I’m not sure there inherently has to be a tradeoff between ‘being able to date EAs’ and ‘having access to work networks free of professional advances.’ Granted the situation you mentioned is inappropriate. But there are lots of different fields in EA, and lots of people who are at similar power levels. If a young AI safety researcher and a young animal-welfare person meet at their university group and start dating, that’s ‘dating within EA’ but it isn’t, in my opinion, at all inappropriate, and the risks are pretty low.
I agree that two young (low seniority) EAs from different fields dating is low risk to them. It avoids issues created by power imbalances. I don’t see issues in such propositioning, especially in more casual/social settings.
If two senior EAs from different fields date, the risk of harassment stemming from power imbalances is much lower than the senior and junior EA from same field scenario. It could be viewed as problematic from ‘a gatekeeping/preferential treatment at the expense of other EAs’ perspective. But people could argue this scenario still has more rewards than risks.
If we find that there is a way for people in the low risk scenarios to date each other, while at the same time assuring against the high risk one, I’d be on board with it. My main issue is if our answer to this is to say ‘let the current norms/policies be’ because we can defer to the goodness or good judgement of high seniority EAs to act appropriately.
I do believe that the majority of them might even behave ethically, but policies and systems are usually not created with them in mind. They are in place so that the minority of people who engage in bad behavior are not attracted to our spaces knowing that it’s easy for them to slip through the cracks here.
I’d be interested in trying to figure this out (maybe through a survey).
What value do different groups in the community get from various kinds of experiences in EA spaces?
For example, I’m curious how most women would weigh being in an EA space (including EAGs, local EA events, EA houses, EA camps and training events etc)
a) that lets them access healthy professional networks free from the tensions of inappropriate* sexual/romantic advances
against
b) being in an EA space where they are able to date EAs.
(There is a tradeoff here.)
I am also curious if men in the community have an opposing view—if so, it might be important to think about how the existing state of the community (that may have been shaped by the views of the majority gender) may make it less attractive to women currently in or considering joining the community.
(This example is obviously hypothetical but I do have a suspicion that a greater percentage of women would weigh a) higher than b) )
Similarly, I am also curious about how different locations/EA organizations/cause area sub groups weigh these choices.
*example of inappropriate—young EA job seekers being propositioned by potential bosses/seniors in their field after making it clear to them that they were looking for job opportunities/contacts/mentoring in that field.
[Edit: This project has been passed on to the CEA Community Heath Team, and folded in to a research project which will gather and analyze data from many other sources in addition to a survey. I’ve passed on your comment to Catherine Low who is orchestrating the major investigation. You can read her announcement here, posted Feb 14th: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/mEkRrDweNSdNdrmvx/plans-for-investigating-and-improving-the-experience-of ]
I (and other key players) are working on a gender experiences in EA survey, and I will add this to it, thanks!
Yeah, that would be interesting. I’m not sure there inherently has to be a tradeoff between ‘being able to date EAs’ and ‘having access to work networks free of professional advances.’ Granted the situation you mentioned is inappropriate. But there are lots of different fields in EA, and lots of people who are at similar power levels. If a young AI safety researcher and a young animal-welfare person meet at their university group and start dating, that’s ‘dating within EA’ but it isn’t, in my opinion, at all inappropriate, and the risks are pretty low.
I agree that two young (low seniority) EAs from different fields dating is low risk to them. It avoids issues created by power imbalances. I don’t see issues in such propositioning, especially in more casual/social settings.
If two senior EAs from different fields date, the risk of harassment stemming from power imbalances is much lower than the senior and junior EA from same field scenario. It could be viewed as problematic from ‘a gatekeeping/preferential treatment at the expense of other EAs’ perspective. But people could argue this scenario still has more rewards than risks.
If we find that there is a way for people in the low risk scenarios to date each other, while at the same time assuring against the high risk one, I’d be on board with it. My main issue is if our answer to this is to say ‘let the current norms/policies be’ because we can defer to the goodness or good judgement of high seniority EAs to act appropriately.
I do believe that the majority of them might even behave ethically, but policies and systems are usually not created with them in mind. They are in place so that the minority of people who engage in bad behavior are not attracted to our spaces knowing that it’s easy for them to slip through the cracks here.