People choose whom they date and befriend—no-one is forcing EAs to date each other, live together, or be friends. EAs associate socially because they share values and character traits.
To an extent, but this doesn’t engage with the second counterpoint you mentioned:
2. The work/social overlap means that people who are engaged with EA professionally, but not part of the social community, may miss out on opportunities.
I think it would be more accurate to say that, there are subtle pressures that do heavily encourage EAs to date each other, live together, and be friends (I removed the word ‘force’ because ‘force’ feels a bit strong here). For example, as you mentioned, people working/wanting to work in AI safety are aware that moving to the Bay Area will open up opportunities. Some of these opportunities are quite likely to come from living in an EA house, socialising with other EAs, and, in some cases, dating other EAs. For many people in the community, this creates ‘invisible glass ceilings,’ as Sonia Joseph put it. For example, a woman is likely to be more put-off by the prospect of living in an EA house with 9 men than another man would be (and for good reasons, as we saw in the Times article). It is not necessarily the case that everyone’s preference is living in an EA house, but that some people feel they will miss opportunities if they don’t. Likewise, this creates barriers for people who, for religious/cultural reasons, can’t or don’t want to have roommates who aren’t the same gender, people who struggle with social anxiety/sensory overload, or people who just don’t want to share a big house with people that they also work and socialise with.
If you’re going to talk about the benefits of these practices, you also need to engage with the downfalls that affect people who, for whatever reason, choose not to become a part of the tight-knit community. I think this will disproportionately be people who don’t look like the existing community.
I don’t know if the framing of it “creating barriers” completely captures the dynamic. I would suggest that there is already a barrier (opportunities to exchange ideas/network with like-minded people) and the main effect of starting a group house is to lower these barriers for the people who end up joining these and then maybe there is a secondary effect where some of these people might be less accessible than they would be otherwise since they have a lower need for connecting with outside people, however, this seems like a secondary effect. And I guess I see conflating the two as increasing the chance that people talk past each other.
I think this is a reasonable concern (as someone who would avoid moving into a big group house like the plague :p). I’d be in favour of more blinding when people make hiring decisions. Hiring agencies, as well as saving people time here, might also make the process fairer, since they can be more objective and will be less tempted to hire friends.
As an empirical matter, do you think people in EA do disproportionately hire friends, or does the causation go the other way? (e.g., people move into group houses with friendly colleagues).
To an extent, but this doesn’t engage with the second counterpoint you mentioned:
I think it would be more accurate to say that, there are subtle pressures that do heavily encourage EAs to date each other, live together, and be friends (I removed the word ‘force’ because ‘force’ feels a bit strong here). For example, as you mentioned, people working/wanting to work in AI safety are aware that moving to the Bay Area will open up opportunities. Some of these opportunities are quite likely to come from living in an EA house, socialising with other EAs, and, in some cases, dating other EAs. For many people in the community, this creates ‘invisible glass ceilings,’ as Sonia Joseph put it. For example, a woman is likely to be more put-off by the prospect of living in an EA house with 9 men than another man would be (and for good reasons, as we saw in the Times article). It is not necessarily the case that everyone’s preference is living in an EA house, but that some people feel they will miss opportunities if they don’t. Likewise, this creates barriers for people who, for religious/cultural reasons, can’t or don’t want to have roommates who aren’t the same gender, people who struggle with social anxiety/sensory overload, or people who just don’t want to share a big house with people that they also work and socialise with.
If you’re going to talk about the benefits of these practices, you also need to engage with the downfalls that affect people who, for whatever reason, choose not to become a part of the tight-knit community. I think this will disproportionately be people who don’t look like the existing community.
I don’t know if the framing of it “creating barriers” completely captures the dynamic. I would suggest that there is already a barrier (opportunities to exchange ideas/network with like-minded people) and the main effect of starting a group house is to lower these barriers for the people who end up joining these and then maybe there is a secondary effect where some of these people might be less accessible than they would be otherwise since they have a lower need for connecting with outside people, however, this seems like a secondary effect. And I guess I see conflating the two as increasing the chance that people talk past each other.
I think this is a reasonable concern (as someone who would avoid moving into a big group house like the plague :p). I’d be in favour of more blinding when people make hiring decisions. Hiring agencies, as well as saving people time here, might also make the process fairer, since they can be more objective and will be less tempted to hire friends.
As an empirical matter, do you think people in EA do disproportionately hire friends, or does the causation go the other way? (e.g., people move into group houses with friendly colleagues).