As others have noted, it looks like the journalists got a lot of basic things wrong in this reporting. I’m doubly frustrated by this because basically all of the EA/rationalist discourse on Twitter is about these mistakes, with almost no discussion of the unchallenged allegations in the piece: that Manifold’s conference had attendees/speakers with ties to eugenicist and racist people and groups.
For example, whether or not Richard Hanania uses prediction markets, I want him nowhere near EA or EA-funded groups/events. For why, see this.
that Manifold’s conference had attendees/speakers with ties to eugenicist and racist people and groups.
I think it’s somewhat fair to criticize Manifold for their selection of speakers (though I would be hesitant to infer endorsement).
But I think it’s pretty unfair to criticize Manifold for attendees who bought tickets for an event that anyone in the world can buy tickets to. I agree that in as much as any substantial fraction (like idk >10%) of an event ends up full of people who take harmful actions, then that makes sense to be concerned about, but there were 600 people at Manifest, and so I don’t think finding a few attendees who have harmful effects on society and the world is much evidence about Manifest.
People are notoriously bad at assessing these things, so do take this with a major grain of salt: I would believe >10% of the people present were HBD curious or would endorse and partake in discussions around HBD. If we want better data a survey could be sent to the participants.
Oh, I would totally partake in discussions around HBD. In as much as people consider that a harmful action, I strongly disapprove. I think a lot of the claims around it are bunk, and disagree with many people in the space, but I would totally talk to people about it, as I am willing to talk to people about almost everything.
This is helpful context. I think it is still a bit unsettling that there was a noticeable strain of this type of stuff from the attendees (like if I went to a ticketed party and noticed that 5% of it was into race science somehow, I’d feel uncomfortable and want to leave.)
It’s probably good to note that Manifold is not an EA organisation, and Manifest (iiuc) was not funded by EA funders or branded as an EA event (though I think Manifest was trying to channel some of the EA vibe, and many attendees were involved in EA in some way).
Lighthaven will generally rent the space to whoever pays us enough money to make it worth it (and we made on-net money on Manifest, even taking into account staff time), barring some very exceptional circumstances.
I do think overall Manifest was great and I would subsidize it, but I want to set clear expectations that I absolutely do not endorse everyone who rents space from us (like, I think there is a substantial chance we will host team retreats for capability teams at AI scaling labs, and there is basically no group of people whose actions I condemn more than them, but I still think it’s the right choice to rent space to them).
As others have noted, it looks like the journalists got a lot of basic things wrong in this reporting. I’m doubly frustrated by this because basically all of the EA/rationalist discourse on Twitter is about these mistakes, with almost no discussion of the unchallenged allegations in the piece: that Manifold’s conference had attendees/speakers with ties to eugenicist and racist people and groups.
For example, whether or not Richard Hanania uses prediction markets, I want him nowhere near EA or EA-funded groups/events. For why, see this.
I think it’s somewhat fair to criticize Manifold for their selection of speakers (though I would be hesitant to infer endorsement).
But I think it’s pretty unfair to criticize Manifold for attendees who bought tickets for an event that anyone in the world can buy tickets to. I agree that in as much as any substantial fraction (like idk >10%) of an event ends up full of people who take harmful actions, then that makes sense to be concerned about, but there were 600 people at Manifest, and so I don’t think finding a few attendees who have harmful effects on society and the world is much evidence about Manifest.
People are notoriously bad at assessing these things, so do take this with a major grain of salt: I would believe >10% of the people present were HBD curious or would endorse and partake in discussions around HBD. If we want better data a survey could be sent to the participants.
Oh, I would totally partake in discussions around HBD. In as much as people consider that a harmful action, I strongly disapprove. I think a lot of the claims around it are bunk, and disagree with many people in the space, but I would totally talk to people about it, as I am willing to talk to people about almost everything.
This is helpful context. I think it is still a bit unsettling that there was a noticeable strain of this type of stuff from the attendees (like if I went to a ticketed party and noticed that 5% of it was into race science somehow, I’d feel uncomfortable and want to leave.)
It’s probably good to note that Manifold is not an EA organisation, and Manifest (iiuc) was not funded by EA funders or branded as an EA event (though I think Manifest was trying to channel some of the EA vibe, and many attendees were involved in EA in some way).
This is helpful, though Lighthaven is definitely backed by EA money.
Lighthaven will generally rent the space to whoever pays us enough money to make it worth it (and we made on-net money on Manifest, even taking into account staff time), barring some very exceptional circumstances.
I do think overall Manifest was great and I would subsidize it, but I want to set clear expectations that I absolutely do not endorse everyone who rents space from us (like, I think there is a substantial chance we will host team retreats for capability teams at AI scaling labs, and there is basically no group of people whose actions I condemn more than them, but I still think it’s the right choice to rent space to them).