Thanks for the answer! After reading your comments, I’m a bit confused now—I’m not sure if I misinterpreted your post heavily, but we agree on some points, or I red your post correctly and we still disagree.
As for you being emotional, yes, I assumed that based on your answer, but shouldn’t have done so, I’m sorry.
It would be helpful for me to understand, if you agree with the points below:
You should consider not engaging in “random” and not “well thought through” sexual activities within the community at all
This especially holds if you a) are a cis het men b) you know you are not a master of reading social interactions c) you are in any position of power—even if you are not a direct supervisor of a person
In those settings relationships in which a person you sleep with is your “the most, and if you are poly—only special person” with whom you have a very deep connection are still fine.
This is how I understood your post, and I have multiple reasons to disagree with all points and regard them as problematic.
I would agree with: 1. You should strongly consider not engaging in “random” and “not well thought through” sexual activities within the community with anyone towards whom you are in a direct position of power. 2. While engaging in any random or not well thought through activities, please: a) if you are not a master of social interactions, do your best to learn mechanisms which prevent harm b) if you are in a position of power in EA in general, never ignore this dynamics and learn how to address it. If you are much older than the person you hook up with, remember—even if they seem mature, you are in a position of power. If you suspect you may fail to understand somebody’s boundaries, stop engaging in random encounters immediately and go ask for help. This is a skill which can be learned. c) if you are not in a position of power, do your best to learn how to clearly and assertively state your boundaries. If you suspect that you’ll have trouble doing that, stop engaging in random encounters immediately and ask for help. This is a skill which can be learned. 3. Poly relationships pose a set of different challenges than monogamy and our general culture provides very little guidelines on how to do them well. If you are engaging in a complex polyamorous dynamics, make sure you have mental space to do so appropriately. Take social misconceptions about polyamory and metaamorus dynamics into consideration. They can be hard, so if you are not ready to take it, consider possible monogamy/address your concerns in a safe setting.
In the same time, I strongly acknowledge that people have right to make mistakes and sexual interpersonal interactions are difficult and sexual usually full of emotions, so there will be conflicts, misunderstandings, mistakes. I believe no social or religious rules on the world change that, “a culture of being more modest ” certainly doesn’t. Education, communication, empathy and emotional maturity from both sides on the other hand, works wonders. So I’d like to see more of that within the community.
tbh I always feel slightly like I want to push back when people say “polyamory is this thing that’s new and untested and that our culture does not have well established guidelines for”
like, poly feels pretty intuitive to me from being somewhat immersed in poly culture, it’s just that I don’t think the norms have seeped out into the mainstream yet? Sure, the way people do poly is pretty heterogeneous but the same is true of monogamy?
I think I do want to urge people to be cautious if they don’t feel entirely comfortable with it/ don’t feel like they get the norms, or it feels like they’re trying to work it out from first principles. But ‘this seems as simple as any other relationship structure’ is a state that it’s possible to get to
I still mostly agree with this sentiment, but after having been poly for 8 years, I agree with it a lot less than I used to. I think poly can be very easy, and also that there a lot of pitfalls that I didn’t predict until I found myself in them. I’ve made significant mistakes as recently as a year ago that changed my mind about how to best approach things like jealousy and commitment.
Some specific ways I’ve changed in the last couple years: I’ve become more willing to change or limit my own behavior in response to my partners’ insecurity (while still dispreferring “rules”), err towards proactively having explicit conversations with all my partners as my feelings change or develop over time, have a higher bar of interest for starting relationships than I used to, and lean more towards breaking up over “de-escalating” with ex-primaries (but not in all situations). I wish I’d had some of these models earlier—I could have avoided hurting some people I cared about—but I do think they were hard to learn without experience.
I’m sure I’d have had a different set of relationship lessons to learn if I’d been monogamous for 8 years; I don’t think monogamy is simple either! But I also think some of the complex situations where I was most likely to hurt others were specific to polyamory (for example, wanting to “switch primaries” while still dating my previous primary).
ETA: still largely agree with you that it’s very possible to get to the point of “this seems as simple as any other relationship structure”, especially if you’re in a pretty stable relationship configuration, or if you and your partners are all pretty chill / ok with fluidity of time and commitment
Thanks for the answer! After reading your comments, I’m a bit confused now—I’m not sure if I misinterpreted your post heavily, but we agree on some points, or I red your post correctly and we still disagree.
As for you being emotional, yes, I assumed that based on your answer, but shouldn’t have done so, I’m sorry.
It would be helpful for me to understand, if you agree with the points below:
You should consider not engaging in “random” and not “well thought through” sexual activities within the community at all
This especially holds if you a) are a cis het men b) you know you are not a master of reading social interactions c) you are in any position of power—even if you are not a direct supervisor of a person
In those settings relationships in which a person you sleep with is your “the most, and if you are poly—only special person” with whom you have a very deep connection are still fine.
This is how I understood your post, and I have multiple reasons to disagree with all points and regard them as problematic.
I would agree with:
1. You should strongly consider not engaging in “random” and “not well thought through” sexual activities within the community with anyone towards whom you are in a direct position of power.
2. While engaging in any random or not well thought through activities, please: a) if you are not a master of social interactions, do your best to learn mechanisms which prevent harm b) if you are in a position of power in EA in general, never ignore this dynamics and learn how to address it. If you are much older than the person you hook up with, remember—even if they seem mature, you are in a position of power. If you suspect you may fail to understand somebody’s boundaries, stop engaging in random encounters immediately and go ask for help. This is a skill which can be learned. c) if you are not in a position of power, do your best to learn how to clearly and assertively state your boundaries. If you suspect that you’ll have trouble doing that, stop engaging in random encounters immediately and ask for help. This is a skill which can be learned.
3. Poly relationships pose a set of different challenges than monogamy and our general culture provides very little guidelines on how to do them well. If you are engaging in a complex polyamorous dynamics, make sure you have mental space to do so appropriately. Take social misconceptions about polyamory and metaamorus dynamics into consideration. They can be hard, so if you are not ready to take it, consider possible monogamy/address your concerns in a safe setting.
In the same time, I strongly acknowledge that people have right to make mistakes and sexual interpersonal interactions are difficult and sexual usually full of emotions, so there will be conflicts, misunderstandings, mistakes. I believe no social or religious rules on the world change that, “a culture of being more modest ” certainly doesn’t. Education, communication, empathy and emotional maturity from both sides on the other hand, works wonders. So I’d like to see more of that within the community.
tbh I always feel slightly like I want to push back when people say “polyamory is this thing that’s new and untested and that our culture does not have well established guidelines for”
like, poly feels pretty intuitive to me from being somewhat immersed in poly culture, it’s just that I don’t think the norms have seeped out into the mainstream yet? Sure, the way people do poly is pretty heterogeneous but the same is true of monogamy?
I think I do want to urge people to be cautious if they don’t feel entirely comfortable with it/ don’t feel like they get the norms, or it feels like they’re trying to work it out from first principles. But ‘this seems as simple as any other relationship structure’ is a state that it’s possible to get to
I still mostly agree with this sentiment, but after having been poly for 8 years, I agree with it a lot less than I used to. I think poly can be very easy, and also that there a lot of pitfalls that I didn’t predict until I found myself in them. I’ve made significant mistakes as recently as a year ago that changed my mind about how to best approach things like jealousy and commitment.
Some specific ways I’ve changed in the last couple years: I’ve become more willing to change or limit my own behavior in response to my partners’ insecurity (while still dispreferring “rules”), err towards proactively having explicit conversations with all my partners as my feelings change or develop over time, have a higher bar of interest for starting relationships than I used to, and lean more towards breaking up over “de-escalating” with ex-primaries (but not in all situations). I wish I’d had some of these models earlier—I could have avoided hurting some people I cared about—but I do think they were hard to learn without experience.
I’m sure I’d have had a different set of relationship lessons to learn if I’d been monogamous for 8 years; I don’t think monogamy is simple either! But I also think some of the complex situations where I was most likely to hurt others were specific to polyamory (for example, wanting to “switch primaries” while still dating my previous primary).
ETA: still largely agree with you that it’s very possible to get to the point of “this seems as simple as any other relationship structure”, especially if you’re in a pretty stable relationship configuration, or if you and your partners are all pretty chill / ok with fluidity of time and commitment