Second: As a poly EA, I’m more likely to bother to show up for things if I think I might get laid. It increases engagement and community cohesion.
[emphasis added]
I just want to flag that this makes me pretty uncomfortable. Not all engagement is good, and if a change in policy / culture increases engagement on the margin because it attracts people who want to show up to get laid (who otherwise wouldn’t have been there), I think I’m personally okay with not having this engagement.
It’s also not clear that if EA changes the dynamics of events or the movement such that there are now an extra group of people who are engaging now that there are opportunities to get laid, that this wouldn’t lead to other people disengaging, so I think the extent to which this actually leads to positive engagement and community cohesion is an open question.
The impact on the global portfolio of charitable action is much less clear, because people like me will coalesce elsewhere in communities that try to be actively cringe and have a bit of a right wing reputation to avoid new comers who want to drive us out. But we’ll probably still be worrying about ai, utilitarianism, and trying to make ethical concerns into real world changes.
...changes to the culture should be judged in utilitarian terms by how they influence the global portfolio of action, not by how they change the level of useful work directly done through EA.
I’m not sure if I’m understanding you correctly. Your two claims sound like:
“If people like me are driven out of the EA community, they will coalesce elsewhere, have a cringe + right wing reputation, and continue to do work on AI / try to make ethical concerns into real world changes.”
“Changes to EA culture should take into account all impacts and not just the direct impact done through EA.”
If you assume that more normie / left-leaning EAs[1] won’t continue to do the “EA-equivalent” to the same extent (e.g. they go off and become a campaign coordinator for the median social justice movement), doesn’t this imply EA should actively move away from “cringe + right wing reputation” by your own argument?[2]
i.e. if “cringe right wing” EAs are going to work on AI safety regardless of their involvement in EA, and “normie left wing” EAs will be more impactful in EA than outside of it, this implies the counterfactual loss in impact is asymmetrical, and if you suggest taking into account all impacts and not just the direct impact through EA, then presumably this supports moving in the normie left wing direction.
Fwiw, I’m not the biggest fan of these labels, and I think they risk being more tribal than adding clarity to the conversation. Like I think folks on a wide range on the political spectrum can have meaningful and useful things to contribute to the EA movement. But I am using it just as antonyms to the examples you gave.
Again, just using your words, not necessarily reflective of any personal views of what you might refer to as “weird aspie” / “libertarian anti-woke” EAs. I’m also not necessarily advocating that EA should actually move away from this group, just trying to understand your argument.
[emphasis added]
I just want to flag that this makes me pretty uncomfortable. Not all engagement is good, and if a change in policy / culture increases engagement on the margin because it attracts people who want to show up to get laid (who otherwise wouldn’t have been there), I think I’m personally okay with not having this engagement.
It’s also not clear that if EA changes the dynamics of events or the movement such that there are now an extra group of people who are engaging now that there are opportunities to get laid, that this wouldn’t lead to other people disengaging, so I think the extent to which this actually leads to positive engagement and community cohesion is an open question.
I’m not sure if I’m understanding you correctly. Your two claims sound like:
“If people like me are driven out of the EA community, they will coalesce elsewhere, have a cringe + right wing reputation, and continue to do work on AI / try to make ethical concerns into real world changes.”
“Changes to EA culture should take into account all impacts and not just the direct impact done through EA.”
If you assume that more normie / left-leaning EAs[1] won’t continue to do the “EA-equivalent” to the same extent (e.g. they go off and become a campaign coordinator for the median social justice movement), doesn’t this imply EA should actively move away from “cringe + right wing reputation” by your own argument?[2]
i.e. if “cringe right wing” EAs are going to work on AI safety regardless of their involvement in EA, and “normie left wing” EAs will be more impactful in EA than outside of it, this implies the counterfactual loss in impact is asymmetrical, and if you suggest taking into account all impacts and not just the direct impact through EA, then presumably this supports moving in the normie left wing direction.
Fwiw, I’m not the biggest fan of these labels, and I think they risk being more tribal than adding clarity to the conversation. Like I think folks on a wide range on the political spectrum can have meaningful and useful things to contribute to the EA movement. But I am using it just as antonyms to the examples you gave.
Again, just using your words, not necessarily reflective of any personal views of what you might refer to as “weird aspie” / “libertarian anti-woke” EAs. I’m also not necessarily advocating that EA should actually move away from this group, just trying to understand your argument.