So in this hypothetical, certain functions transfer to the fee-paying society, and certain functions remain funded by OP. That makes sense, although I think the range of what the fee-paying society can do on fees alone may be relatively small. If we estimate 2,140 full fee-payers at $200 each and 1,428 students at $50 each, that’s south of $500K. You’d need a diverse group of EtGers willing to put up $5K-$25K each for this to work, I suspect. I’m not opposed; in fact, my first main post on the Forum was in part about the need for the community to secure independent funding for certain epistemically critical functions. I just want to see people who advocate for a fee-paying society to bite the bullet of how much revenue fees could generate and what functions could be sustained on that revenue. It sounds like you are willing to do so.
But looping back to your main point about “huge amounts of soft and hard power over the EA community” held by OP, how much would change in this hypothetical? OP still funds the bulk of EA, still pays for the “recruitment funnel,” pays the community builders, and sponsors the conferences. I don’t think characterizing the bulk of what CEA et al. do as a “recruitment funnel” for the longtermist ecosystem renders those functions less important as sources of hard and soft power. OP would still be spending ~ $20-$30MM on meta versus perhaps ~ $1-2MM for the fee-paying society.
OP and most current EA community work takes a “Narrow EA” approach. The theory of change is that OP and EA leaders have neglected ideas and need to recruit elites to enact these ideas. Buying castles and funding expensive recruitment funnels is consistent with this strategy.
I am talking about something closer to a big tent EA approach. One vision could be to help small and medium donors in rich countries spend more money more effectively on philanthropy, with a distinctive emphasis on cause neutrality and cause prioritization. This can and probably should be started in a grassroots fashion with little money. Spending millions on fancy conferences and paying undergraduate community builders might be counter to the spirit and goals of this approach.
A fee-paying society is a natural fit for big tent EA and not for narrow EA.
I didn’t know that the huge amounts of power held by OP was my main point! I was trying to use that to explain why EA community members were so invested in the castle. I’m not sure I succeeded, especially since I agree with @Elizabeth’s points that no one needs to wait for permission from OP or anyone else to pursue what they think is right, and the EA community cannot direct OP’s donations.
I personally would love to see a big-tent organization like the one you describe! I think it less-than-likely that the existence of such an organization would have made most of the people who were “so invested in the castle” significantly less so. But there’s no way to test that. I agree that a big-tent organization would bring in other people—not currently involved in EA—who would be unlikely to care much about the castle.
That’s helpful.
So in this hypothetical, certain functions transfer to the fee-paying society, and certain functions remain funded by OP. That makes sense, although I think the range of what the fee-paying society can do on fees alone may be relatively small. If we estimate 2,140 full fee-payers at $200 each and 1,428 students at $50 each, that’s south of $500K. You’d need a diverse group of EtGers willing to put up $5K-$25K each for this to work, I suspect. I’m not opposed; in fact, my first main post on the Forum was in part about the need for the community to secure independent funding for certain epistemically critical functions. I just want to see people who advocate for a fee-paying society to bite the bullet of how much revenue fees could generate and what functions could be sustained on that revenue. It sounds like you are willing to do so.
But looping back to your main point about “huge amounts of soft and hard power over the EA community” held by OP, how much would change in this hypothetical? OP still funds the bulk of EA, still pays for the “recruitment funnel,” pays the community builders, and sponsors the conferences. I don’t think characterizing the bulk of what CEA et al. do as a “recruitment funnel” for the longtermist ecosystem renders those functions less important as sources of hard and soft power. OP would still be spending ~ $20-$30MM on meta versus perhaps ~ $1-2MM for the fee-paying society.
OP and most current EA community work takes a “Narrow EA” approach. The theory of change is that OP and EA leaders have neglected ideas and need to recruit elites to enact these ideas. Buying castles and funding expensive recruitment funnels is consistent with this strategy.
I am talking about something closer to a big tent EA approach. One vision could be to help small and medium donors in rich countries spend more money more effectively on philanthropy, with a distinctive emphasis on cause neutrality and cause prioritization. This can and probably should be started in a grassroots fashion with little money. Spending millions on fancy conferences and paying undergraduate community builders might be counter to the spirit and goals of this approach.
A fee-paying society is a natural fit for big tent EA and not for narrow EA.
I didn’t know that the huge amounts of power held by OP was my main point! I was trying to use that to explain why EA community members were so invested in the castle. I’m not sure I succeeded, especially since I agree with @Elizabeth’s points that no one needs to wait for permission from OP or anyone else to pursue what they think is right, and the EA community cannot direct OP’s donations.
I personally would love to see a big-tent organization like the one you describe! I think it less-than-likely that the existence of such an organization would have made most of the people who were “so invested in the castle” significantly less so. But there’s no way to test that. I agree that a big-tent organization would bring in other people—not currently involved in EA—who would be unlikely to care much about the castle.