I worry that people might misunderstand the views of Sentience Institute from your comment. The Sentience Institute report summarizes arguments for both positive (momentum) and negative (complacency) long-term effects of welfare reforms. But Jacy and Kelly, who run Sentience Institute, are in favor of welfare reforms, although they do believe anti-speciesism has more positive expected value in the long term. [1] And Sentience Institute’s survey [2] of EAA researchers similarly indicates strong support for momentum rather than complacency in the long-term.
More broadly, the sign of the long-term effects of all EA interventions are uncertain, and this is not a problem specific to welfare reforms. (Even the sign of the short-term effects of most animal interventions are uncertain.)
I also don’t think the statement that “‘cage-free’ isn’t actually much of a real welfare improvement” is a fair summary of the Open Philanthropy’s report. The blog post says, for instance: “We continue to believe our grants to accelerate the adoption of cage-free systems were net-beneficial for layer hens … In addition, it seems clear to us that cage-free systems have much higher welfare potential than battery cage systems – that is, the theoretical highest-welfare hen housing system would not contain cages.”
That being said, I think it is fair to say that ACE regards cage-free as a small improvement, since their 2017 cost-effectiveness model assumes that moving one hen to a cage-free facility reduces only 5% as much suffering as preventing the hen from existence. But it’s also notable that ACE’s cost-effectiveness models still place corporate campaigns and engagement for welfare reforms as the most cost-effective of the interventions in their estimates, even though they adjust for this pessimism.
(Of course the effects could go negative as you suggest, i.e. if they change their mind and decide cage-free increases 5% as much suffering. But again, this problem is not unique to welfare reforms, as evidenced by the observation that ACE’s estimates of most interventions have confidence intervals that span the negatives.)
For what it’s worth, my own view is that ACE’s cost-effectiveness estimates are far too pessimistic about the benefits of cage-free vs battery cages. (Though I also think they’re too optimistic about some other assumptions.)
Avi
[1] This is from memory and hopefully I’ve characterized their positions accurately.
Jamie,
I worry that people might misunderstand the views of Sentience Institute from your comment. The Sentience Institute report summarizes arguments for both positive (momentum) and negative (complacency) long-term effects of welfare reforms. But Jacy and Kelly, who run Sentience Institute, are in favor of welfare reforms, although they do believe anti-speciesism has more positive expected value in the long term. [1] And Sentience Institute’s survey [2] of EAA researchers similarly indicates strong support for momentum rather than complacency in the long-term.
More broadly, the sign of the long-term effects of all EA interventions are uncertain, and this is not a problem specific to welfare reforms. (Even the sign of the short-term effects of most animal interventions are uncertain.)
I also don’t think the statement that “‘cage-free’ isn’t actually much of a real welfare improvement” is a fair summary of the Open Philanthropy’s report. The blog post says, for instance: “We continue to believe our grants to accelerate the adoption of cage-free systems were net-beneficial for layer hens … In addition, it seems clear to us that cage-free systems have much higher welfare potential than battery cage systems – that is, the theoretical highest-welfare hen housing system would not contain cages.”
That being said, I think it is fair to say that ACE regards cage-free as a small improvement, since their 2017 cost-effectiveness model assumes that moving one hen to a cage-free facility reduces only 5% as much suffering as preventing the hen from existence. But it’s also notable that ACE’s cost-effectiveness models still place corporate campaigns and engagement for welfare reforms as the most cost-effective of the interventions in their estimates, even though they adjust for this pessimism.
(Of course the effects could go negative as you suggest, i.e. if they change their mind and decide cage-free increases 5% as much suffering. But again, this problem is not unique to welfare reforms, as evidenced by the observation that ACE’s estimates of most interventions have confidence intervals that span the negatives.)
For what it’s worth, my own view is that ACE’s cost-effectiveness estimates are far too pessimistic about the benefits of cage-free vs battery cages. (Though I also think they’re too optimistic about some other assumptions.)
Avi
[1] This is from memory and hopefully I’ve characterized their positions accurately.
[2] https://www.sentienceinstitute.org/blog/eaa-researcher-survey-june-2017