Thanks for the post ! I had read others from you previously, and I think the comparison with the hand generation makes your point clearer.
Precautionary notes : I might have misunderstood stuff, be adressing non-problems or otherwise be that irritating person that really should have read the relevant posts twice.
I sense some possible frustration expressed at the end of the post. In the hope that it is helpful, I would like to explain why this matter is not the one that preoccupies me the most -keeping in mind that I only got a desperate undergrad diploma in philosophy, and just so happen to have spent time thinking about vaguely similar problems (you would definitely benefit from someone else than a random dude giving feedback).
A confusing part for me is that “what makes good philosophy” and the likes is not a hard problem, it’s an insanely hard one. It would be a hard problem if we had to solve it analytically (e.g using probability theory, evidence, logic, rationality and such), but as a matter of fact, we need more than this, because non-analytic people are, unsurprisingly, extremely resistant to analytic arguments, and are also a non-negligeable proportion of philosophers (and humans). I think it would be dishonest to claim to solve meta-philosophy while producing assertions that do not move non-analytic thinkers by an inch. Saying stuff that convinces a lot of people is very hard, even when relying on logic and science.
Say that your LLM is trained to do “exquisite philosophy”, and that anything it outputs is written in the style of Derrida and shares its presumptions, e.g :
User : “How to know whether something is true ?”
AI : In the elusive terrain of epistemological inquiry, the quest for truth reveals itself as an intricate dance with the undecidable. To ascertain the veracity of a proposition is to engage in a perpetual play of signifiers, where meaning unfurls in a web of intertextuality and deferred significations.
We need to scrutinize the inherent instability within language, dismantling the notion of an essential, fixed truth. The very act of seeking truth is inscribed within a linguistic economy that perpetuates multiplicities of meanings, fragmenting certainties into a constellation of ever-shifting possibilities.
(This is a charitable version of Derrida) You would like to say : “No ! This is bad philosophy !”
But let’s reverse the situation. If a hardcore phenomenologist is faced with the following exchange :
User : How to know whether something is true ?
AI: To ascertain the truth of a proposition, one must rely on empirical evidence and logical reasoning. Direct observation, empirical verification, and coherence with established knowledge serve as essential criteria. However, absolute certainty remains elusive, and one must acknowledge the provisional nature of truth, subject to refinement in light of new evidence or more refined reasoning.
Their answer will be the same : “It’s such bad philosophy, that it’s not even philosophy!” (real quote).
Of course, when pressed to defend your side, you could argue several things, while citing dozens upon dozens of analytic authors. But that will not move your Derridean interlocutor -for some obscure reasons that have to do with the fact that communication is already broken. Phenomenologist have already chosen a certain criterion for succesful communication (something like “manifestation under transcendental reduction”) while we have already chosen another one. What does it even mean to evaluate this criterion in a way that makes sense for everyone?
I’m also playing naive by making clear distinctions between phenomenal and analytic traditions, but really we don’t clearly know what makes a tradition, when do these problems arise, and how to solve them. Philosophers themselves stopped arguing about it because, really, it’s more productive to just ignore each other, or pretend to have understood it at some level by reinterpreting it while throwing away the gibberish metaphysics you disagree with, or pretend that “it’s all a matter of style”.
If anyone makes an AI that is capable of superhuman philosophy, any person from any tradition will pray for it to be part of their tradition, and this will have a very important impact. As things stand out right now, ChatGPT seems to be quite analytic by default, to the (very real) distaste of my continental friends. I could as well imagine feeling distate for a “post-analytic” LLM that is, actually, doing better philosophy than any living being.
So the following questions are still open for me : 1-How do you plan to solve the inter-traditional problem, if at all? 2-Don’t you think it is a bit risky to ignore the extent to which philosophers disagree on what even is philosophy, when filtering the dataset to create a good philosopher-AI? 3-If this problem is orthogonal to your quest, are you sure that “philosophy” is the right term ?
Thanks for the comment. I agree that what you describe is a hard part of the overall problem. I have a partial plan, which is to solve (probably using analytic methods) metaphilosophy for both analytic and non-analytic philosophy, and then use that knowledge to determine what to do next. I mean today the debate between the two philosophical traditions is pretty hopeless, since nobody even understands what people are really doing when they do analytic or non-analytic philosophy. Maybe the situation will improve automatically when metaphilosophy has been solved, or at least we’ll have a better knowledge base for deciding what to do next.
If we can’t solve metaphilosophy in time though (before AI takeoff), I’m not sure what the solution is. I guess AI developers use their taste in philosophy to determine how to filter the dataset, and everyone else hopes for the best?
Thanks for the post ! I had read others from you previously, and I think the comparison with the hand generation makes your point clearer.
Precautionary notes : I might have misunderstood stuff, be adressing non-problems or otherwise be that irritating person that really should have read the relevant posts twice.
I sense some possible frustration expressed at the end of the post. In the hope that it is helpful, I would like to explain why this matter is not the one that preoccupies me the most -keeping in mind that I only got a desperate undergrad diploma in philosophy, and just so happen to have spent time thinking about vaguely similar problems (you would definitely benefit from someone else than a random dude giving feedback).
A confusing part for me is that “what makes good philosophy” and the likes is not a hard problem, it’s an insanely hard one. It would be a hard problem if we had to solve it analytically (e.g using probability theory, evidence, logic, rationality and such), but as a matter of fact, we need more than this, because non-analytic people are, unsurprisingly, extremely resistant to analytic arguments, and are also a non-negligeable proportion of philosophers (and humans). I think it would be dishonest to claim to solve meta-philosophy while producing assertions that do not move non-analytic thinkers by an inch. Saying stuff that convinces a lot of people is very hard, even when relying on logic and science.
Say that your LLM is trained to do “exquisite philosophy”, and that anything it outputs is written in the style of Derrida and shares its presumptions, e.g :
(This is a charitable version of Derrida)
You would like to say : “No ! This is bad philosophy !”
But let’s reverse the situation. If a hardcore phenomenologist is faced with the following exchange :
Their answer will be the same : “It’s such bad philosophy, that it’s not even philosophy!” (real quote).
Of course, when pressed to defend your side, you could argue several things, while citing dozens upon dozens of analytic authors.
But that will not move your Derridean interlocutor -for some obscure reasons that have to do with the fact that communication is already broken. Phenomenologist have already chosen a certain criterion for succesful communication (something like “manifestation under transcendental reduction”) while we have already chosen another one. What does it even mean to evaluate this criterion in a way that makes sense for everyone?
I’m also playing naive by making clear distinctions between phenomenal and analytic traditions, but really we don’t clearly know what makes a tradition, when do these problems arise, and how to solve them. Philosophers themselves stopped arguing about it because, really, it’s more productive to just ignore each other, or pretend to have understood it at some level by reinterpreting it while throwing away the gibberish metaphysics you disagree with, or pretend that “it’s all a matter of style”.
If anyone makes an AI that is capable of superhuman philosophy, any person from any tradition will pray for it to be part of their tradition, and this will have a very important impact. As things stand out right now, ChatGPT seems to be quite analytic by default, to the (very real) distaste of my continental friends. I could as well imagine feeling distate for a “post-analytic” LLM that is, actually, doing better philosophy than any living being.
So the following questions are still open for me :
1-How do you plan to solve the inter-traditional problem, if at all?
2-Don’t you think it is a bit risky to ignore the extent to which philosophers disagree on what even is philosophy, when filtering the dataset to create a good philosopher-AI?
3-If this problem is orthogonal to your quest, are you sure that “philosophy” is the right term ?
Thanks for the comment. I agree that what you describe is a hard part of the overall problem. I have a partial plan, which is to solve (probably using analytic methods) metaphilosophy for both analytic and non-analytic philosophy, and then use that knowledge to determine what to do next. I mean today the debate between the two philosophical traditions is pretty hopeless, since nobody even understands what people are really doing when they do analytic or non-analytic philosophy. Maybe the situation will improve automatically when metaphilosophy has been solved, or at least we’ll have a better knowledge base for deciding what to do next.
If we can’t solve metaphilosophy in time though (before AI takeoff), I’m not sure what the solution is. I guess AI developers use their taste in philosophy to determine how to filter the dataset, and everyone else hopes for the best?