Project Idea: Interviewing people who have left EA
I can remember a couple of years ago hearing some discussion of a project of interviewing people who have left EA. As far as I know this hasn’t happened happened (though might just not be aware of it).
I think this is a good idea, and something I’d like to see as part of the Red Teaming contest.
Why I think this is a good idea:
People who leave EA, at least in some cases, will do so because they no longer buy into it, or no longer like it. Sometimes they will just drift away, but other times, they’ll have reasons for leaving.
I expect people leaving EA to be a particularly valuable source of criticism, and to highlight things that would otherwise go unnoticed. A couple of different framings:
EA as a product: If you’re building a product, and want to make it better, you probably want to talk to people who didn’t like the product, or used the product for a bit and then stopped, and not just get input from people who are still using the product
EA as a theory: If you’re developing a theory, and want to make it better, you probably want to talk to people that disagreed with the theory, and not just...
Receiving criticism from people who were never convinced by EA/ who have never been ‘in’ EA seems useful, though I think there’s additional benefit to criticism from people who were in EA and then left.
EA looks pretty different from the inside than from the outside. (Often external EA criticisms seem to be focused on an out of date version of EA). Criticisms of a city you have lived in will be pretty different from a city you haven’t lived in.
EA is something of a worldview, with a loose shared set of concepts, beliefs, language, norms etc. People who have adopted this worldview will probably be better able to communicate to it. Eg. it’s probaby easier for someone who has been a Catholic to present a compelling criticism of Catholicism to Catholics.
I also expect people leaving EA to be much less likely to actually eg. write up and post their criticisms of EA. Some reasons:
The usual motivations will apply less. Eg. Alice is an EA and writes up an EA criticism piece because she wants to help the EA community become better, and because she wants to make a name for herself in EA (eg. write a banging post, everyone thinks its amazing, she gets a job at an EA org or something). Robert is leaving EA and feels pessimistic about the EA community improving, and is less bothered about making a name for himself within EA, and so doesn’t write a post.
EA is in part a worldview, and leaving EA can mean shifting away from that worldview. Thinking about worldviews is pretty hard—they are nebulous, big and often not made explicit. Also communicating with people who do not share your worldview is hard. Imaginary caricature:
Robert: I don’t really like the vibe of EA anymore, and think there are systemic problems with the power structure.
Alice: Interesting, do you have any reason and evidence for that, or subjective probability estimates? Also would you like some Huel?
EA can become a big part of people’s lives, covering their beliefs, hopes and dreams, ambitions, social group, diet etc. Leaving this all can be hard/ emotionally taxing, and plausibly building a new life seems more important than writing up a list of reasons why you don’t endorse the old life.
“70,000 hours back”; a monthly podcast interviewing someone who ‘left EA’ about what they think are some of EAs most pressing problems, and what somebody else should do about them.
Thoughts on EA criticism
Project Idea: Interviewing people who have left EA
I can remember a couple of years ago hearing some discussion of a project of interviewing people who have left EA. As far as I know this hasn’t happened happened (though might just not be aware of it).
I think this is a good idea, and something I’d like to see as part of the Red Teaming contest.
Why I think this is a good idea:
People who leave EA, at least in some cases, will do so because they no longer buy into it, or no longer like it. Sometimes they will just drift away, but other times, they’ll have reasons for leaving.
I expect people leaving EA to be a particularly valuable source of criticism, and to highlight things that would otherwise go unnoticed. A couple of different framings:
EA as a product: If you’re building a product, and want to make it better, you probably want to talk to people who didn’t like the product, or used the product for a bit and then stopped, and not just get input from people who are still using the product
EA as a theory: If you’re developing a theory, and want to make it better, you probably want to talk to people that disagreed with the theory, and not just...
Receiving criticism from people who were never convinced by EA/ who have never been ‘in’ EA seems useful, though I think there’s additional benefit to criticism from people who were in EA and then left.
EA looks pretty different from the inside than from the outside. (Often external EA criticisms seem to be focused on an out of date version of EA). Criticisms of a city you have lived in will be pretty different from a city you haven’t lived in.
EA is something of a worldview, with a loose shared set of concepts, beliefs, language, norms etc. People who have adopted this worldview will probably be better able to communicate to it. Eg. it’s probaby easier for someone who has been a Catholic to present a compelling criticism of Catholicism to Catholics.
I also expect people leaving EA to be much less likely to actually eg. write up and post their criticisms of EA. Some reasons:
The usual motivations will apply less. Eg. Alice is an EA and writes up an EA criticism piece because she wants to help the EA community become better, and because she wants to make a name for herself in EA (eg. write a banging post, everyone thinks its amazing, she gets a job at an EA org or something). Robert is leaving EA and feels pessimistic about the EA community improving, and is less bothered about making a name for himself within EA, and so doesn’t write a post.
EA is in part a worldview, and leaving EA can mean shifting away from that worldview. Thinking about worldviews is pretty hard—they are nebulous, big and often not made explicit. Also communicating with people who do not share your worldview is hard. Imaginary caricature:
Robert: I don’t really like the vibe of EA anymore, and think there are systemic problems with the power structure.
Alice: Interesting, do you have any reason and evidence for that, or subjective probability estimates? Also would you like some Huel?
EA can become a big part of people’s lives, covering their beliefs, hopes and dreams, ambitions, social group, diet etc. Leaving this all can be hard/ emotionally taxing, and plausibly building a new life seems more important than writing up a list of reasons why you don’t endorse the old life.
I think this sounds exciting. I’d also be interested in interviews with EAs who are feeling much more pessimistic about EA than they used to.
“70,000 hours back”; a monthly podcast interviewing someone who ‘left EA’ about what they think are some of EAs most pressing problems, and what somebody else should do about them.
Who thought the userid did not have leftism as in left of center, but leftism as in those who left the community. :D
This seems interesting. What methods do you think might be promising to identify former EAs to talk to?