Strong downvote on the OP because the counting is done in a HIGHLY misleading way. If I were the moderators I would take the post down or demand SUBSTANTIAL corrections.
For Claim 1. (25% of signatories have been accused of financial misconduct, and 10% convicted[1]), the info provided in the footnote renders this claim outright false. Beyond the fact that many civil violations of the law are not even crimes, civil judgments are not convictions, require a substantially lower standard of proof, and from a legal strategy standpoint, there is often no reason not to settle a case that requires no admission of wrongdoing and where the legal consequences of a criminal conviction are not triggered and it’s just not worth the opportunity cost of spending time and money litigating it.
Using the experience of non-US billionaires is also extremely misleading without evidence about base rates of crime in those countries. My guess would be that India, for example, has historically had such high rates of corruption that virtually every Indian over ~50, and certainly those in business, have done things that would result in jail time if done in the US. But that’s not morally blameworthy; it’s just the system they have to operate in.
Beyond that issue, some more mundane ones:
No evidence is presented for the idea that white collar criminals are less likely to be punished than other criminals. It is probably the case that rich people are less likely to be punished for the same crime than poor people. But the nature of financial crime in publicly traded companies is that the evidence is just way more accessible to the government than the evidence of stealing toothpaste from Target. So financial crimes in publicly traded companies are likely prosecuted at much higher rates than other types of crimes.
Overall the rates listed appear to generally be lower than the general population, which is extremely impressive considering that most billionaires are men, who tend to have much higher rates of criminality. So I would expect billionaires to have almost double the population base rate of criminality just by virtue of that! I don’t know why Y-combinator funding is a remotely appropriate reference class.
Let’s review the individual claims now:
25% of signatories have been accused of financial misconduct, and 10% convicted[1]
4% of signatories have spent at least one day in prison
Overall, 41% of signatories have had at least one allegation of substantial misconduct (financial, sexual, or otherwise
Claim 1. is blatantly false, as noted at the outset. Beyond that, we have only an explanation, hidden in the footnote, of what constitutes a “conviction”. No definition of the meaning of allegation. Based on the stated methodology I assume at least a criminal charge or the filing of a lawsuit to count. No indication on whether e.g. a public allegation with no suit counts, and no indication that a lawsuit needs to be credible to count.
Were it to be true, this would be lower than the overall % of Americans with criminal charges, which is about 1⁄3 of adults. This doesn’t include those who’ve been defendants in a civil lawsuit, which I can’t find good statistics for. I can’t find overall statistics for criminal convictions but 8% of American adults have felony convictions. Based on my experience as a lawyer, it’s surprising what kinds of minor bs count as a felony but I’d still be surprised if misdemeanor convictions don’t outnumber felonies (with substantial overlap), so I’d guess at least 16% have some kind of conviction. Miscount civil judgments as “convictions” and tons more people get thrown in.
Claim 2.--the population base rate is about 5% over a lifetime.
Claim 3. In addition to the problems noted with 1., it’s unclear what constitutes “substantial misconduct”. Crimes at least have a clear definition. Civil violations of the law have a clear-ish definition.
“Blatantly false” feels a bit hyperbolic but sure, if you have an alternative word for “convicted” that covers both criminal and civil cases I would be much obliged. I asked some lawyers and looked around online and couldn’t find anything, but I agree it would be better if this information was in the main text instead of a footnote, all else equal.
Strong downvote on the OP because the counting is done in a HIGHLY misleading way. If I were the moderators I would take the post down or demand SUBSTANTIAL corrections.
For Claim 1. (25% of signatories have been accused of financial misconduct, and 10% convicted[1]), the info provided in the footnote renders this claim outright false. Beyond the fact that many civil violations of the law are not even crimes, civil judgments are not convictions, require a substantially lower standard of proof, and from a legal strategy standpoint, there is often no reason not to settle a case that requires no admission of wrongdoing and where the legal consequences of a criminal conviction are not triggered and it’s just not worth the opportunity cost of spending time and money litigating it.
Using the experience of non-US billionaires is also extremely misleading without evidence about base rates of crime in those countries. My guess would be that India, for example, has historically had such high rates of corruption that virtually every Indian over ~50, and certainly those in business, have done things that would result in jail time if done in the US. But that’s not morally blameworthy; it’s just the system they have to operate in.
Beyond that issue, some more mundane ones:
No evidence is presented for the idea that white collar criminals are less likely to be punished than other criminals. It is probably the case that rich people are less likely to be punished for the same crime than poor people. But the nature of financial crime in publicly traded companies is that the evidence is just way more accessible to the government than the evidence of stealing toothpaste from Target. So financial crimes in publicly traded companies are likely prosecuted at much higher rates than other types of crimes.
Overall the rates listed appear to generally be lower than the general population, which is extremely impressive considering that most billionaires are men, who tend to have much higher rates of criminality. So I would expect billionaires to have almost double the population base rate of criminality just by virtue of that! I don’t know why Y-combinator funding is a remotely appropriate reference class.
Let’s review the individual claims now:
25% of signatories have been accused of financial misconduct, and 10% convicted[1]
4% of signatories have spent at least one day in prison
Overall, 41% of signatories have had at least one allegation of substantial misconduct (financial, sexual, or otherwise
Claim 1. is blatantly false, as noted at the outset. Beyond that, we have only an explanation, hidden in the footnote, of what constitutes a “conviction”. No definition of the meaning of allegation. Based on the stated methodology I assume at least a criminal charge or the filing of a lawsuit to count. No indication on whether e.g. a public allegation with no suit counts, and no indication that a lawsuit needs to be credible to count.
Were it to be true, this would be lower than the overall % of Americans with criminal charges, which is about 1⁄3 of adults. This doesn’t include those who’ve been defendants in a civil lawsuit, which I can’t find good statistics for. I can’t find overall statistics for criminal convictions but 8% of American adults have felony convictions. Based on my experience as a lawyer, it’s surprising what kinds of minor bs count as a felony but I’d still be surprised if misdemeanor convictions don’t outnumber felonies (with substantial overlap), so I’d guess at least 16% have some kind of conviction. Miscount civil judgments as “convictions” and tons more people get thrown in.
Claim 2.--the population base rate is about 5% over a lifetime.
Claim 3. In addition to the problems noted with 1., it’s unclear what constitutes “substantial misconduct”. Crimes at least have a clear definition. Civil violations of the law have a clear-ish definition.
“Blatantly false” feels a bit hyperbolic but sure, if you have an alternative word for “convicted” that covers both criminal and civil cases I would be much obliged. I asked some lawyers and looked around online and couldn’t find anything, but I agree it would be better if this information was in the main text instead of a footnote, all else equal.