Iâd like to introduce a few considerations as an âolderâ EA (I am 43 now) :
Scope of measurement: Joeyâs post was based on 5 year data. As Joey mentioned, âit would take a long time to get good dataâ. However, it may well be that expanding the time scope would yield very different results. It is possible that a graph plotting a typical EAâs degree of involvement/âcommitment with the movement would not look like a horizontal line but rather like a zigzag. I base this on purely anecdotal evidence, but I have seen many people (including myself) recover interests, hobbies, passions, etc. once their children are older. I am quite new to the movement, but there is no way that 10 years ago I would have put in the time I am now devoting to EA. If I had started my involvement in college âsupposing EA had been aroundâ, you could have seen a sharp decline during my thirties (and tag that as value drift)⌠without knowing there would be a sharp increase in my forties.
Expectations: This is related to my previous point. Is it optimal to expect a constant involvement/âcommitment with the movement? As EAs, we should think of maximizing our lifetime contributions. Keeping the initial engagement levels constant sounds good in theory, but it may not be the best strategy in the long run (e.g. potentially leading to burnout, etc). Maybe we should think of âengagement fluctuationsâ as something natural and to be expected instead of something dangerous that must be fought against.
EA interaction styles: If and as the median age of the community goes up, we may need to adapt the ways in which we interact (or rather add to the existing ones). It can be much harder for people with full-time jobs and children to attend regular meetings or late afternoon âsocialsâ. How can we make it easier for people that have very strong demands on their time to stay involved without feeling that they are missing out or that they just canât cope with everything? I donât have an answer right now, but I think this is worth exploring.
The overall idea here is that instead of fighting an uneven involvement/âcommitment across time it may be better to actually plan for it and find ways of accommodating it within a âlifetime contribution strategyâ. It may well be that there is a minimum threshold below which people completely abandon EA. If that it so I suggest we think of ways of making it easy for people to stay above that threshold at times when other parts of their lives are especially demanding.
It is possible that a graph plotting a typical EAâs degree of involvement/âcommitment with the movement would not look like a horizontal line but rather like a zigzag.
It would be very encouraging if this is a common phenomenon and many people âdropping outâ might potentially come back at some point to EA ideals. It provides a counterexample to something I have commented earlier:
It is worth pointing out that most of this discussion is just speculation. The very limited anecdata we have from Joey and others seems too weak to draw detailed conclusions. Anyway: From talking to people who are in their 40s and 50s now, it seems to me that a significant fraction of them were at some point during their youth or at university very engaged in politics and wanted to contribute to âchanging the world for the betterâ. However, most of these people have reduced their altruistic engagement over time and have at some point started a family, bought a house etc. and have never come back to their altruistic roots. This common story is what seems to be captured by the saying (that I neither like nor endorse): âIf youâre not a socialist at the age of 20 you have no heart. If youâre not a conservative at the age of 40, you have no headâ.
Regarding your related point:
Is it optimal to expect a constant involvement/âcommitment with the movement? As EAs, we should think of maximizing our lifetime contributions (...) and find ways of accommodating it within a âlifetime contribution strategyâ
I strongly agree with this, which was my motivation to write the post in the first place! I donât think constant involvement/âcommitment to (effective) altruism is necessary to maximise your lifetime impact. That said, it seems like for many people there is a considerable chance to never âfind their way backâ to this commitment after they spent years/âdecades in non-altruistic environments, on starting a family, on settling down etc. This is why Iâd generally think people with EA values in their twenties should consider ways to at the least stay loosely involved/âupdated over the mid- to long-term to reduce the chance of this happening. So it provides a great example to hear that you actually managed to do just that! In any case, more research is needed on thisâI somewhat want to caution against survivorship bias, which could become an issue if we mostly talk to the people who did what is possibly exceptional (e.g. took up a strong altruistic commitment in their forties or having been around EA for for a long time).
Good points. If I were doing a write up on this subject it would be something like this:
âAs the years go by, you will likely go through stages during which you cannot commit as much time or other resources to EA. This is natural and you should not interpret lower-commitment stages as failures: the goal is to maximize your lifetime contributions and that will require balancing EA with other goals and demands. However, there is a risk that you may drift away from EA permanently if your engagement is too low for a long period of time. Here are some tools you can use to prevent that from happening:â
Great posts, Joey and Darius!
Iâd like to introduce a few considerations as an âolderâ EA (I am 43 now) :
Scope of measurement: Joeyâs post was based on 5 year data. As Joey mentioned, âit would take a long time to get good dataâ. However, it may well be that expanding the time scope would yield very different results. It is possible that a graph plotting a typical EAâs degree of involvement/âcommitment with the movement would not look like a horizontal line but rather like a zigzag. I base this on purely anecdotal evidence, but I have seen many people (including myself) recover interests, hobbies, passions, etc. once their children are older. I am quite new to the movement, but there is no way that 10 years ago I would have put in the time I am now devoting to EA. If I had started my involvement in college âsupposing EA had been aroundâ, you could have seen a sharp decline during my thirties (and tag that as value drift)⌠without knowing there would be a sharp increase in my forties.
Expectations: This is related to my previous point. Is it optimal to expect a constant involvement/âcommitment with the movement? As EAs, we should think of maximizing our lifetime contributions. Keeping the initial engagement levels constant sounds good in theory, but it may not be the best strategy in the long run (e.g. potentially leading to burnout, etc). Maybe we should think of âengagement fluctuationsâ as something natural and to be expected instead of something dangerous that must be fought against.
EA interaction styles: If and as the median age of the community goes up, we may need to adapt the ways in which we interact (or rather add to the existing ones). It can be much harder for people with full-time jobs and children to attend regular meetings or late afternoon âsocialsâ. How can we make it easier for people that have very strong demands on their time to stay involved without feeling that they are missing out or that they just canât cope with everything? I donât have an answer right now, but I think this is worth exploring.
The overall idea here is that instead of fighting an uneven involvement/âcommitment across time it may be better to actually plan for it and find ways of accommodating it within a âlifetime contribution strategyâ. It may well be that there is a minimum threshold below which people completely abandon EA. If that it so I suggest we think of ways of making it easy for people to stay above that threshold at times when other parts of their lives are especially demanding.
Great points, thanks for raising them!
It would be very encouraging if this is a common phenomenon and many people âdropping outâ might potentially come back at some point to EA ideals. It provides a counterexample to something I have commented earlier:
Regarding your related point:
I strongly agree with this, which was my motivation to write the post in the first place! I donât think constant involvement/âcommitment to (effective) altruism is necessary to maximise your lifetime impact. That said, it seems like for many people there is a considerable chance to never âfind their way backâ to this commitment after they spent years/âdecades in non-altruistic environments, on starting a family, on settling down etc. This is why Iâd generally think people with EA values in their twenties should consider ways to at the least stay loosely involved/âupdated over the mid- to long-term to reduce the chance of this happening. So it provides a great example to hear that you actually managed to do just that! In any case, more research is needed on thisâI somewhat want to caution against survivorship bias, which could become an issue if we mostly talk to the people who did what is possibly exceptional (e.g. took up a strong altruistic commitment in their forties or having been around EA for for a long time).
Good points. If I were doing a write up on this subject it would be something like this:
âAs the years go by, you will likely go through stages during which you cannot commit as much time or other resources to EA. This is natural and you should not interpret lower-commitment stages as failures: the goal is to maximize your lifetime contributions and that will require balancing EA with other goals and demands. However, there is a risk that you may drift away from EA permanently if your engagement is too low for a long period of time. Here are some tools you can use to prevent that from happening:â