Inviting more female keynote speakers at EAG(x) events.
Not only are these directly contradictory (pigeonholing women into being community builders will preclude greater participation in speaking positions, which usually require a great deal of specialist knowledge), but EA is already known for shoving women into community building/operations roles (hypothesis: because they’re not taken seriously as researchers/specialists).
explicitly encourage women to apply for conferences, vacancies and the like to reduce self-doubt.
This is going to get you nowhere without particular seats at those conferences, organizations, fellowships, etc. actually set aside for women. It’s very easy to say “No, it’s okay, we accept women, too!” and much harder to get a group of men to follow through with that.
I once approached a man at an EA social event who I had heard make a misogynistic comment that I found particularly reproachable. He apologized for being “unprofessional.” We were playing beer pong; professionalism had nothing to do with it. There is some kind of mental disconnect making the rounds, to the effect that this behavior is only a problem in professional contexts, and men behaving poorly to women in social contexts has no ramifications on the community.
I think this is spot on. There have been many discussions on the forum proposing rules like “Never hit on women during daytime in EAG, but it’s ok at afterparties”. And they’re all basically doing something blunt on the one hand, and not preventing people from being a**holes on the other hand.
I think the bright-line rules serve several important purposes. They are not replacements for “don’t be an a**hole,” but are rather complements. A norm against seeking romantic or sexual connection during EAG events, for instance, is intended in part to equalize opportunities for professional networking at a networking event (which doesn’t happen if, e.g., some people are setting up 1:1s for romantic purposes).
It is easier for everyone to realize when a bright-line norm would or has been breached. That should make it more likely that the norms won’t be breached in the first place, but also should make it more likely that norm violations will be reported and that appropriate action will be taken.
I understand what tension you are describing, a question for clarification: I personally am not familiar with your description that “EA is already known for shoving women into community building/operations roles”, where does this sense come from?
And I think that’s another tangible proposal you’re making here which I’d like to draw attention to and make explicit to see what others think: creating quota for how many spots have to go to women at conferences, organizations, fellowships etc.
My sense that women in EA are shoved into community building or operations roles comes from most of the women I know in EA having specialist/technical backgrounds but being shoved into community building or operations roles.
It also comes from conversations with those women where they confirm that they share the sense that EA is known for shoving women into community building and operations roles.
It also comes from the vast majority of websites of EA organizations featuring men as directors/leaders/researchers/etc. and women disproportionately in operations roles, and from going to fellowships and conferences where women are responsible for the day-to-day operations, and from planning events where women are responsible for the operations. In a community that’s roughly 2/3s men, that’s kind of insane.
I’m not pretending to have done a survey on this, but in my experience this has been such a well-known/previously-observed phenomenon that that survey would be a waste of time.
Also, I assumed the idea of quotas for women were why my post’s agreement karma is pretty controversial, so I hope you have better luck than I did getting feedback on that idea.
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Not only are these directly contradictory (pigeonholing women into being community builders will preclude greater participation in speaking positions, which usually require a great deal of specialist knowledge), but EA is already known for shoving women into community building/operations roles (hypothesis: because they’re not taken seriously as researchers/specialists).
This is going to get you nowhere without particular seats at those conferences, organizations, fellowships, etc. actually set aside for women. It’s very easy to say “No, it’s okay, we accept women, too!” and much harder to get a group of men to follow through with that.
I once approached a man at an EA social event who I had heard make a misogynistic comment that I found particularly reproachable. He apologized for being “unprofessional.” We were playing beer pong; professionalism had nothing to do with it. There is some kind of mental disconnect making the rounds, to the effect that this behavior is only a problem in professional contexts, and men behaving poorly to women in social contexts has no ramifications on the community.
I think this is spot on. There have been many discussions on the forum proposing rules like “Never hit on women during daytime in EAG, but it’s ok at afterparties”. And they’re all basically doing something blunt on the one hand, and not preventing people from being a**holes on the other hand.
I think the bright-line rules serve several important purposes. They are not replacements for “don’t be an a**hole,” but are rather complements. A norm against seeking romantic or sexual connection during EAG events, for instance, is intended in part to equalize opportunities for professional networking at a networking event (which doesn’t happen if, e.g., some people are setting up 1:1s for romantic purposes).
It is easier for everyone to realize when a bright-line norm would or has been breached. That should make it more likely that the norms won’t be breached in the first place, but also should make it more likely that norm violations will be reported and that appropriate action will be taken.
So I think this is a both/and situation.
I understand what tension you are describing, a question for clarification: I personally am not familiar with your description that “EA is already known for shoving women into community building/operations roles”, where does this sense come from?
And I think that’s another tangible proposal you’re making here which I’d like to draw attention to and make explicit to see what others think: creating quota for how many spots have to go to women at conferences, organizations, fellowships etc.
My sense that women in EA are shoved into community building or operations roles comes from most of the women I know in EA having specialist/technical backgrounds but being shoved into community building or operations roles.
It also comes from conversations with those women where they confirm that they share the sense that EA is known for shoving women into community building and operations roles.
It also comes from the vast majority of websites of EA organizations featuring men as directors/leaders/researchers/etc. and women disproportionately in operations roles, and from going to fellowships and conferences where women are responsible for the day-to-day operations, and from planning events where women are responsible for the operations. In a community that’s roughly 2/3s men, that’s kind of insane.
I’m not pretending to have done a survey on this, but in my experience this has been such a well-known/previously-observed phenomenon that that survey would be a waste of time.
Also, I assumed the idea of quotas for women were why my post’s agreement karma is pretty controversial, so I hope you have better luck than I did getting feedback on that idea.