I agree that veganism is getting in the way of animal advocacy. This post makes great points about how veganism alienates the vast majority of humanity. And to me, veganism’s effect on the majority of humanity is actually just the tip of the iceberg of the problem of how veganism harms animals:
To people in the meat, egg, and dairy industries, veganism is worse than alienating. It’s a direct threat. To someone who makes their living in animal agriculture, the word “vegan” can sound like an attack. “Vegan” can sound like, “I am boycotting all animal products because I want you, your company, and your entire industry to go out of business. I want you to fail at everything you’re trying to achieve and lose your livelihood. I hate you, all your colleagues, and your family. I think you are all fundamentally evil.”
That’s not a very friendly message to hear. It doesn’t open a farmer, farm worker, or ag executive up to want to collaborate with animal advocates. It doesn’t open a poultry-industry veterinarian up to want to consider an animal advocate’s perspective. Imagine how scary it would feel to hear a message like that. Imagine how little you’d want to network with, collaborate with, or be influenced by, someone who sends you that kind of message.
Meanwhile, the best thing for animals would be maximal collaboration and communication between animal agriculture and animal advocates. Farmers, ag executives, and others in the meat, egg, and dairy industries are the ones who have the most power to influence animals’ lives for the better. They are the most important audience for animal advocates to speak with. And they are the most important people for us to learn from. So why should we animal advocates constantly threaten them each time we open our mouths?
But I do view these practices as immoral, and I do want the industry to end. I would waffle on whether I see them as “fundamentally evil”, but same difference, sure, since I cannot personally guarantee any near-term happy ending for everyone involved. Well, the goal isn’t friendliness. Are you saying noone can want any industry to be ended out of ethical concerns? Some causes cannot go with zero friction, and zero conflict, that’s just the reality. Like there’s simply no way to be much friendlier in this regard, and there can be some instrumental win-wins, but the division does remain. In reality, big animal ag is trying to undo all progress with things like the attempted Save Our Bacon part of the Farm Bill, or constantly propagandizing against the entire animal rights movement- this is because in such a big industry, the primary motivator is systemic, not personalistic. The friendliness level of the movement is secondary. Sure, a little more can be done on the poultry-industry veterinarian example (although even there, not too much, because of the effect of cognitive dissonance), but the main object level issues still chug along. Maybe you’re saying this from some welfarist perspective where the animal slaughtering and use/exploitation is viewed as okay, the only issue is chronic pain, so you can truly say that you do not want the industries to come to an end, however broadly construed? I view this as the most important goal right now, but it would be a lie if I said that’s where my problems end.
I agree that veganism is getting in the way of animal advocacy. This post makes great points about how veganism alienates the vast majority of humanity. And to me, veganism’s effect on the majority of humanity is actually just the tip of the iceberg of the problem of how veganism harms animals:
To people in the meat, egg, and dairy industries, veganism is worse than alienating. It’s a direct threat. To someone who makes their living in animal agriculture, the word “vegan” can sound like an attack. “Vegan” can sound like, “I am boycotting all animal products because I want you, your company, and your entire industry to go out of business. I want you to fail at everything you’re trying to achieve and lose your livelihood. I hate you, all your colleagues, and your family. I think you are all fundamentally evil.”
That’s not a very friendly message to hear. It doesn’t open a farmer, farm worker, or ag executive up to want to collaborate with animal advocates. It doesn’t open a poultry-industry veterinarian up to want to consider an animal advocate’s perspective. Imagine how scary it would feel to hear a message like that. Imagine how little you’d want to network with, collaborate with, or be influenced by, someone who sends you that kind of message.
Meanwhile, the best thing for animals would be maximal collaboration and communication between animal agriculture and animal advocates. Farmers, ag executives, and others in the meat, egg, and dairy industries are the ones who have the most power to influence animals’ lives for the better. They are the most important audience for animal advocates to speak with. And they are the most important people for us to learn from. So why should we animal advocates constantly threaten them each time we open our mouths?
But I do view these practices as immoral, and I do want the industry to end. I would waffle on whether I see them as “fundamentally evil”, but same difference, sure, since I cannot personally guarantee any near-term happy ending for everyone involved. Well, the goal isn’t friendliness. Are you saying noone can want any industry to be ended out of ethical concerns? Some causes cannot go with zero friction, and zero conflict, that’s just the reality. Like there’s simply no way to be much friendlier in this regard, and there can be some instrumental win-wins, but the division does remain. In reality, big animal ag is trying to undo all progress with things like the attempted Save Our Bacon part of the Farm Bill, or constantly propagandizing against the entire animal rights movement- this is because in such a big industry, the primary motivator is systemic, not personalistic. The friendliness level of the movement is secondary. Sure, a little more can be done on the poultry-industry veterinarian example (although even there, not too much, because of the effect of cognitive dissonance), but the main object level issues still chug along. Maybe you’re saying this from some welfarist perspective where the animal slaughtering and use/exploitation is viewed as okay, the only issue is chronic pain, so you can truly say that you do not want the industries to come to an end, however broadly construed? I view this as the most important goal right now, but it would be a lie if I said that’s where my problems end.