Based on past experience, I learned that back and forth online about this will not be productive, so I did not plan to engage with, and if someone wants to learn more about my perspective, they are welcome to contact me privately by my email.
I would like to strongly encourage you to keep posting in this thread, and I would like to encourage others to upvote your posts here to show that your continued participation in this discussion is valued. Having this dialog out in the open helps keep everyone on the same page.
EDIT: Rob has convinced me that my recommendation that people upvote Gleb’s responses was not a good idea. Instead, also per Rob’s suggestion, I’ve added links to Gleb’s three response comments at the end of the top-level post.
Upvoting can also be construed as community endorsement. (Gleb himself just cited “a number of EAs have upvoted the following comments supportive of InIn/myself...” as an important line of evidence in his denunciation of Oliver Habryka.)
I think people should upvote comments if they think they’re sufficiently good/helpful, and downvote comments if they think they’re sufficiently bad/unhelpful. Rather than trying to artificially inflate upvote totals (as Gleb also does when he says that downvotes = ‘I’ll repost this as a top-level thread’), just edit the OP to link directly to Gleb’s reply.
I mention this partly because the top-level comment here is seriously concerning. “InIn’s content is so low-quality that it’s doing more harm than good” and “InIn regularly engages in dishonest promotional techniques” are both really, really serious charges. Using the fact that people have made one serious substantive criticism to try to discredit any other serious substantive criticism they raise is really bad at the community-norms level. More generally, responding to fair, correct, relevant criticisms in large part by trying to discredit the critics is super bad form and shouldn’t be seen as normal or OK. Repeatedly accusing people raising (basically fair) concerns of ‘costing lives’ because they took the time to fix your mistakes for you is also super bad form and definitely shouldn’t be seen as normal or OK. I really don’t want casual readers to skim through the comments here, see a highly upvoted comment, and assume that the comment therefore reflects EA’s community standards / beliefs / etc.
“a number of EAs have upvoted the following comments supportive of InIn/myself...”
This is especially rich given the accusations (which have been proved to my satisfaction) of astroturfing. At a minimum it’s another example of behaving very responsively towards criticism in the moment but making no changes to core beliefs.
I would like to strongly encourage you to keep posting in this thread, and
I would like to encourage others to upvote your posts here to show that your continued participation in this discussion is valued. Having this dialog out in the open helps keep everyone on the same page.EDIT: Rob has convinced me that my recommendation that people upvote Gleb’s responses was not a good idea. Instead, also per Rob’s suggestion, I’ve added links to Gleb’s three response comments at the end of the top-level post.
Upvoting can also be construed as community endorsement. (Gleb himself just cited “a number of EAs have upvoted the following comments supportive of InIn/myself...” as an important line of evidence in his denunciation of Oliver Habryka.)
I think people should upvote comments if they think they’re sufficiently good/helpful, and downvote comments if they think they’re sufficiently bad/unhelpful. Rather than trying to artificially inflate upvote totals (as Gleb also does when he says that downvotes = ‘I’ll repost this as a top-level thread’), just edit the OP to link directly to Gleb’s reply.
I mention this partly because the top-level comment here is seriously concerning. “InIn’s content is so low-quality that it’s doing more harm than good” and “InIn regularly engages in dishonest promotional techniques” are both really, really serious charges. Using the fact that people have made one serious substantive criticism to try to discredit any other serious substantive criticism they raise is really bad at the community-norms level. More generally, responding to fair, correct, relevant criticisms in large part by trying to discredit the critics is super bad form and shouldn’t be seen as normal or OK. Repeatedly accusing people raising (basically fair) concerns of ‘costing lives’ because they took the time to fix your mistakes for you is also super bad form and definitely shouldn’t be seen as normal or OK. I really don’t want casual readers to skim through the comments here, see a highly upvoted comment, and assume that the comment therefore reflects EA’s community standards / beliefs / etc.
“a number of EAs have upvoted the following comments supportive of InIn/myself...”
This is especially rich given the accusations (which have been proved to my satisfaction) of astroturfing. At a minimum it’s another example of behaving very responsively towards criticism in the moment but making no changes to core beliefs.
Good idea. Done, and edited my comment above.