I think it is disappointing that so many comments are focusing on arguing with the paper rather than discussing the challenges outlined in the post. From a very quick reading I don’t find any of the comments here unreasonable but I do find them to be talking about a different topic. It would be better if we could separate out the discussion of “red teaming” EA from the discussion of this particular paper
The paper is very well written, crisp and communicates its points very well.
The paper includes characterizations of longtermists that seem schematic and many would find unfair.
In the post itself, there are serious statements that add a lot of heat to the issue and are hard to approach.
I think that this is a difficult time where many people are getting/staying out away, or performing emotional labor, for what are genuinely difficult experiences of the OP.
This isn’t ideal for truthseeking.
If I was in a different cause area with a similar issue, I wouldn’t want a lot of longtermists coming in and pulling on these threads, I don’t think that is the ideal or right thing to do.
Interesting, I was thinking the opposite! I was thinking, “There’s so many interesting specific suggestions in this paper and people are just caught up on whether or not they like diversity initiatives generally and what they think of the tone on this paper, how annoying.”
I agree it would have been better to have this as two posts – I’m personally finding it difficult to respond to either the paper or the post, because when I focus on one I feel like I’m ignoring important points in the other.
That said, the fact that both are being discussed in a single post is down to the authors, not the commenters. I think it’s reasonable for any given commenter to focus on one without justifying why they’re neglecting the other.
I think it is disappointing that so many comments are focusing on arguing with the paper rather than discussing the challenges outlined in the post. From a very quick reading I don’t find any of the comments here unreasonable but I do find them to be talking about a different topic. It would be better if we could separate out the discussion of “red teaming” EA from the discussion of this particular paper
The paper is very well written, crisp and communicates its points very well.
The paper includes characterizations of longtermists that seem schematic and many would find unfair.
In the post itself, there are serious statements that add a lot of heat to the issue and are hard to approach.
I think that this is a difficult time where many people are getting/staying out away, or performing emotional labor, for what are genuinely difficult experiences of the OP.
This isn’t ideal for truthseeking.
If I was in a different cause area with a similar issue, I wouldn’t want a lot of longtermists coming in and pulling on these threads, I don’t think that is the ideal or right thing to do.
Interesting, I was thinking the opposite! I was thinking, “There’s so many interesting specific suggestions in this paper and people are just caught up on whether or not they like diversity initiatives generally and what they think of the tone on this paper, how annoying.”
I just mean this could have been two posts—one about the paper and one about the experience of publishing the paper. Both would be very valuable.
I agree it would have been better to have this as two posts – I’m personally finding it difficult to respond to either the paper or the post, because when I focus on one I feel like I’m ignoring important points in the other.
That said, the fact that both are being discussed in a single post is down to the authors, not the commenters. I think it’s reasonable for any given commenter to focus on one without justifying why they’re neglecting the other.
Yeah I agree. I disagree with most of the paper, but I find the claims about pressures not to publish criticism troubling.
Completely agree!