Tone—I did worry that the tone might read like that. To me, getting into EAG was only instrumental for my greater goal of making the world a better place. I do have a tendency to focus a lot of energy into on perceived barriers to efficicacy so it might have come off like getting into EAG was my final objective. Please feel free to point out various parts of the post that seem to suggest otherwise and I can update them.
Making the world a better place—This is a really difficult thing to measure and there is not a lot of transparency around how they are measuring it. Part of why I made this post was to provide more data points to answer Eli’s other question of, “how costly is rejection?” That needs to be factored into calculating how much good EAG is producing. I just don’t think it is properly accounted for.
Hesitant to criticize—I would agree with Vaidehi and say that there are many factors to consider in how comfortable individuals are to criticize EA organizations. Just to add my own data point, there were a couple people that reviewed this post to that were hesitant to be identified in one way or another out of concern for a negative consequence in the future. Starting 1-2 weeks ago since I found out about my rejection, I have probably talked to 15-20 EA’s and about 80% have expressed wariness about saying/doing something that would upset a large EA organization.
It seems to me to be completely valid to acknowledge that there is a real cost to rejection that is felt by individuals at a very personal level. Part of this cost will be the utilitarian frustration of being thwarted from taking advantage of what one imagines could be a highly effective means of furthering one’s goals (i.e. doing good), but part of this cost for many people will be the very personal hurt of rejection, and that both can felt at the same time. We are social beings with identities and values that are rooted in and affirmed by community. This is the reason the philosophy of effective altruism has gained traction in calling itself a community and building institutions around that. Community is important to who we are, what we beleive, and what we do. If doing good is central to one’s sense of purpose and identity, and one has found in the EA community an identity and moral framework that provides a means through which one can live out one’s values, than a rejection handed down by the highly respected leaders of this community will be incredibly painful on a personal level. Our goals and values are inextricably tied up with our identities and relationships.
The psychological cost of rejection is real and i think potentially detrimental to the greater purpose of the organization in so far as it discourages and demotivates people who are driven by a common altruistic purpose, and contributes to a wider sense of the EA community as gated and exclusionary. To the extent that one cares about these costs, I do not see the gain in refusing to acknowledge that the psychological toll of rejection is real, is valid, and is intrinsically bound up with any more purely instrumental costs.
Hi Evie,
I appreciate that you decided to post this.
Tone—I did worry that the tone might read like that. To me, getting into EAG was only instrumental for my greater goal of making the world a better place. I do have a tendency to focus a lot of energy into on perceived barriers to efficicacy so it might have come off like getting into EAG was my final objective. Please feel free to point out various parts of the post that seem to suggest otherwise and I can update them.
Making the world a better place—This is a really difficult thing to measure and there is not a lot of transparency around how they are measuring it. Part of why I made this post was to provide more data points to answer Eli’s other question of, “how costly is rejection?” That needs to be factored into calculating how much good EAG is producing. I just don’t think it is properly accounted for.
Hesitant to criticize—I would agree with Vaidehi and say that there are many factors to consider in how comfortable individuals are to criticize EA organizations. Just to add my own data point, there were a couple people that reviewed this post to that were hesitant to be identified in one way or another out of concern for a negative consequence in the future. Starting 1-2 weeks ago since I found out about my rejection, I have probably talked to 15-20 EA’s and about 80% have expressed wariness about saying/doing something that would upset a large EA organization.
It seems to me to be completely valid to acknowledge that there is a real cost to rejection that is felt by individuals at a very personal level. Part of this cost will be the utilitarian frustration of being thwarted from taking advantage of what one imagines could be a highly effective means of furthering one’s goals (i.e. doing good), but part of this cost for many people will be the very personal hurt of rejection, and that both can felt at the same time. We are social beings with identities and values that are rooted in and affirmed by community. This is the reason the philosophy of effective altruism has gained traction in calling itself a community and building institutions around that. Community is important to who we are, what we beleive, and what we do. If doing good is central to one’s sense of purpose and identity, and one has found in the EA community an identity and moral framework that provides a means through which one can live out one’s values, than a rejection handed down by the highly respected leaders of this community will be incredibly painful on a personal level. Our goals and values are inextricably tied up with our identities and relationships.
The psychological cost of rejection is real and i think potentially detrimental to the greater purpose of the organization in so far as it discourages and demotivates people who are driven by a common altruistic purpose, and contributes to a wider sense of the EA community as gated and exclusionary. To the extent that one cares about these costs, I do not see the gain in refusing to acknowledge that the psychological toll of rejection is real, is valid, and is intrinsically bound up with any more purely instrumental costs.