Yeah, I think âproudly self-identified utilitariansâ is not the same as ânaively optimizing utilitariansâ, so would encourage you to still be welcoming to those in the former group who are not in the latter :-)
ETA: I did appreciate your emphasizing that âitâs quite possible to have radical inside views while being cautious in your actions.â
I had you in mind as a good utilitarian when writing :)
Good point that just saying ânaively optimizingâ utilitarians is probably clearest most of the time. I was looking for other words that would denote high-confidence and willingness to act without qualms.
minor nitpickâthis doesnât seem to capture naive utilitarianism as I understand it. I always thought naive utilitarianism was about going against common sense norms on the basis of your own personal fragile calculations. eg lying is prone to being rumbled and oneâs reputation is very fragile, so it makes sense to follow the norm of not lying even if your own calculations seem to suggest that it is good because the calculations will tend to miss longer term indirect and subtle effects. But this is neither about (1) high confidence nor (2) acting without qualms. Indeed one might decide not to lie with high confidence and without qualms. Equally, one might choose to âlie for the greater goodâ with low confidence and with lots of qualms. This would still be naive utilitarian behaviour
Thatâs usefulâmy ânaive optimizingâ thing isnât supposed to be the same thing as naive utilitarianism, but I do find it hard to pin down the exact trait thatâs the issue here, and those are interesting points about confidence maybe not being the key thing.
Yeah, I think âproudly self-identified utilitariansâ is not the same as ânaively optimizing utilitariansâ, so would encourage you to still be welcoming to those in the former group who are not in the latter :-)
ETA: I did appreciate your emphasizing that âitâs quite possible to have radical inside views while being cautious in your actions.â
I had you in mind as a good utilitarian when writing :)
Good point that just saying ânaively optimizingâ utilitarians is probably clearest most of the time. I was looking for other words that would denote high-confidence and willingness to act without qualms.
minor nitpickâthis doesnât seem to capture naive utilitarianism as I understand it. I always thought naive utilitarianism was about going against common sense norms on the basis of your own personal fragile calculations. eg lying is prone to being rumbled and oneâs reputation is very fragile, so it makes sense to follow the norm of not lying even if your own calculations seem to suggest that it is good because the calculations will tend to miss longer term indirect and subtle effects. But this is neither about (1) high confidence nor (2) acting without qualms. Indeed one might decide not to lie with high confidence and without qualms. Equally, one might choose to âlie for the greater goodâ with low confidence and with lots of qualms. This would still be naive utilitarian behaviour
Thatâs usefulâmy ânaive optimizingâ thing isnât supposed to be the same thing as naive utilitarianism, but I do find it hard to pin down the exact trait thatâs the issue here, and those are interesting points about confidence maybe not being the key thing.