I might have more to say later. On (1), I want to state that, to me, my position seems like the conservative one. If certain views are being politically silenced, my sense is that it’s good for people to have the opportunity to state that. In the alternative, people are only allowed to do this if you already believe that they’re subject to unfair political pressure. Looking over the list and thinking “Hm, about 100 people say they feel silenced or that their opinions feel taboo, but I think they’re wrong about being silenced (or else I think that their opinions should be taboo!), so they shouldn’t have this outlet to say that” seems like a strong case for a potential correlated failure. Like, I don’t fully trust my own personal sense of which of the listed positions actually is and isn’t taboo in this way, and would feel quite bad dictating who was allowed to anonymously say they felt politically pressured based on who I believed was being politically pressured.
There are two issues here. The less important one is - (1) are people’s beliefs that many of these opinions are taboo rational? I think not, and have discussed the reasons why above.
The more important one is (2) - this poll is a blunt instrument that encourages people to enter offensive opinions that threaten the reputation of the movement. If there were a way to do this with those opinions laundered out, then I wouldn’t have a problem.
This has been done in a very careless way without due thought to the very obvious risks
If there were a way to do this with those opinions laundered out, then I wouldn’t have a problem.
I interpret [1] you here as saying “if you press the button of ‘make people search for all their offensive and socially disapproved beliefs, and collect the responses in a single place’ you will inevitably have a bad time. There are complex reasons lots of beliefs have evolved to be socially punished, and tearing down those fences might be really terrible. Even worse, there are externalities such that one person saying something crazy is going to negatively effect *everyone* in the community, and one must be very careful when setting up systems that create such externalities. Importantly though, these costs aren’t intrinsically tied up with the benefits of this poll—you *can* have good ways of dispelling bubbles and encouraging important whistle-blowing, without opening a Pandora’s box of reputational hazards.”
1) Curious if this seems right to you?
2) More importantly, I’m curious about what concrete versions of this you would be fine with, or support?
Someone suggested:
a version with Forum users with >100 karma
Would that address your concerns? Is there anything else that would?
[1] This is to a large extent: “the most plausible version of something similar to what you’re saying, that I understand from my own position”, rather than than “something I’m very confident you actually belief”.
I might have more to say later. On (1), I want to state that, to me, my position seems like the conservative one. If certain views are being politically silenced, my sense is that it’s good for people to have the opportunity to state that. In the alternative, people are only allowed to do this if you already believe that they’re subject to unfair political pressure. Looking over the list and thinking “Hm, about 100 people say they feel silenced or that their opinions feel taboo, but I think they’re wrong about being silenced (or else I think that their opinions should be taboo!), so they shouldn’t have this outlet to say that” seems like a strong case for a potential correlated failure. Like, I don’t fully trust my own personal sense of which of the listed positions actually is and isn’t taboo in this way, and would feel quite bad dictating who was allowed to anonymously say they felt politically pressured based on who I believed was being politically pressured.
There are two issues here. The less important one is - (1) are people’s beliefs that many of these opinions are taboo rational? I think not, and have discussed the reasons why above.
The more important one is (2) - this poll is a blunt instrument that encourages people to enter offensive opinions that threaten the reputation of the movement. If there were a way to do this with those opinions laundered out, then I wouldn’t have a problem.
This has been done in a very careless way without due thought to the very obvious risks
I interpret [1] you here as saying “if you press the button of ‘make people search for all their offensive and socially disapproved beliefs, and collect the responses in a single place’ you will inevitably have a bad time. There are complex reasons lots of beliefs have evolved to be socially punished, and tearing down those fences might be really terrible. Even worse, there are externalities such that one person saying something crazy is going to negatively effect *everyone* in the community, and one must be very careful when setting up systems that create such externalities. Importantly though, these costs aren’t intrinsically tied up with the benefits of this poll—you *can* have good ways of dispelling bubbles and encouraging important whistle-blowing, without opening a Pandora’s box of reputational hazards.”
1) Curious if this seems right to you?
2) More importantly, I’m curious about what concrete versions of this you would be fine with, or support?
Someone suggested:
Would that address your concerns? Is there anything else that would?
[1] This is to a large extent: “the most plausible version of something similar to what you’re saying, that I understand from my own position”, rather than than “something I’m very confident you actually belief”.