Are you referring to the DAF or FS side of things, or both? My prior was that it would be fairly straightforward because there are UK DAFs in existence, and CEA does both DAF-like and FS-like things to a limited extent (sponsoring EA orgs and running EA funds).
While CEA might have charitable purposes that seem restrictive, it doesn’t seem like that’s impacting their ability to try to do everything under the sun.
You tried to create a trust to do this before, but it was rejected because the charitable objects were too broad?
″ Are you referring to the DAF or FS side of things, or both? ” Both
″ My prior was that it would be fairly straightforward because there are UK DAFs in existence, and CEA does both DAF-like and FS-like things to a limited extent (sponsoring EA orgs and running EA funds). ” This is a very reasonable, but incorrect line of thought. The Charity Commission is very clear about the fact that even if someone else has successfully applied for something in the past, it doesn’t mean that someone else applying for exactly the same thing should be allowed it in the future.
″ While CEA might have charitable purposes that seem restrictive, it doesn’t seem like that’s impacting their ability to try to do everything under the sun. ” I don’t think their purposes do seem restrictive. Under a careful reading, as I remember it, it’s fairly clear that their objects are extremely broad. This was why my first bullet suggested that CEA could provide this service.
″ You tried to create a trust to do this before, but it was rejected because the charitable objects were too broad? ” No, sorry, I may not have been clear on this. The reason why I said that an unincorporated entity (i.e. a trust) could do this was that a trust *would* (I think!) get approved, even with broad objects. However an incorporated charity (a CIO, to use the jargon) was rejected for having too-broad objects, notwithstanding the long list of pre-existing precedents whose pattern I was following.
Note that using a trust has downsides. With a trust, I would recommend only funding individuals and non-charities with extreme caution.
Note that using a trust has downsides. With a trust, I would recommend only funding individuals and non-charities with extreme caution.
Could you elaborate on this? I’m interested in setting up a trust to do microgrants, taking advantage of the fact that I can tolerate greater risks with my own money than an EA org (I’d also be happy to let other people use the trust as a vehicle for that). The main disadvantage of trusts I’m aware of is that trustees are personally liable, but that doesn’t seem like a big risk if it’s just making grants.
Trustees being personally liable was the thing I was thinking of.
If you fund individuals (i.e. people working who aren’t part of an incorporated entity) then I’m not sure how exposed you would be to the risk that the law would treat you as a de facto employer of that person. (It may be fine, it’s just something that I don’t know).
The Charity Commission is generally nervous about charitable entities sending money to non-charities, but does not forbid it. There is a Charity Commission guidance note about this somewhere on the internet.
Are you referring to the DAF or FS side of things, or both? My prior was that it would be fairly straightforward because there are UK DAFs in existence, and CEA does both DAF-like and FS-like things to a limited extent (sponsoring EA orgs and running EA funds).
While CEA might have charitable purposes that seem restrictive, it doesn’t seem like that’s impacting their ability to try to do everything under the sun.
You tried to create a trust to do this before, but it was rejected because the charitable objects were too broad?
″ Are you referring to the DAF or FS side of things, or both? ” Both
″ My prior was that it would be fairly straightforward because there are UK DAFs in existence, and CEA does both DAF-like and FS-like things to a limited extent (sponsoring EA orgs and running EA funds). ” This is a very reasonable, but incorrect line of thought. The Charity Commission is very clear about the fact that even if someone else has successfully applied for something in the past, it doesn’t mean that someone else applying for exactly the same thing should be allowed it in the future.
″ While CEA might have charitable purposes that seem restrictive, it doesn’t seem like that’s impacting their ability to try to do everything under the sun. ” I don’t think their purposes do seem restrictive. Under a careful reading, as I remember it, it’s fairly clear that their objects are extremely broad. This was why my first bullet suggested that CEA could provide this service.
″ You tried to create a trust to do this before, but it was rejected because the charitable objects were too broad? ” No, sorry, I may not have been clear on this. The reason why I said that an unincorporated entity (i.e. a trust) could do this was that a trust *would* (I think!) get approved, even with broad objects. However an incorporated charity (a CIO, to use the jargon) was rejected for having too-broad objects, notwithstanding the long list of pre-existing precedents whose pattern I was following.
Note that using a trust has downsides. With a trust, I would recommend only funding individuals and non-charities with extreme caution.
Could you elaborate on this? I’m interested in setting up a trust to do microgrants, taking advantage of the fact that I can tolerate greater risks with my own money than an EA org (I’d also be happy to let other people use the trust as a vehicle for that). The main disadvantage of trusts I’m aware of is that trustees are personally liable, but that doesn’t seem like a big risk if it’s just making grants.
Trustees being personally liable was the thing I was thinking of.
If you fund individuals (i.e. people working who aren’t part of an incorporated entity) then I’m not sure how exposed you would be to the risk that the law would treat you as a de facto employer of that person. (It may be fine, it’s just something that I don’t know).
The Charity Commission is generally nervous about charitable entities sending money to non-charities, but does not forbid it. There is a Charity Commission guidance note about this somewhere on the internet.
Thanks! For anyone else reading this, this guidance seems relevant.
Have you chatted with John Beshir? He mentioned to me that he was working on setting this up as a trust in the UK in mid-2019.
Update: Some difficulties came up, so John is not actively pursuing this right now.