A mix of anecdotal stories from friends, and the common posts up here, like Tim, clearly claiming that this happens and he and his wife are part of it.
Perhaps the ‘frequently’ is uncharitable, I’m admittedly a bit frustrated on this topic. Still it seems like you aren’t really answering the core of my criticism—that this creates extremely unhealthy and abusive power dynamics...
You might be underrating the role of theatricality in the culture, the role silliness plays in the appeal for a lot of people, not to mention the high bar for communication and introspection. Heck, people of the culture are known to say things like “can I hug you?” which is more interpersonally scrupulous than the base rate “normal” person who, I’ve observed, seem use this “hugs for women; handshakes for men” heuristic that it’s super autistic to second guess.
I think if the community theater was putting on King Lear, and my boss got the part of the king, and I got the part of a servant, no one would think there’s a CoI or unscrupulosity, right? or if I got the part of Lear and my boss got the part of a servant, whatever.
(flagging that I’m hesitating to participate in subthread because topicalness, but didn’t think leading a pivot to DMs made sense since the cat was already out of the bag)
I’m admittedly not in the polyamory/SF/Rationalist part of the EA movement, and going based off second or third-hand stories and things posted on the EA forum.
I didn’t claim anything of that sort. Neither of us work for an EA org. My wife strongly does not identify as EA. I’m not even BDSM. I just claim my wife would consider inviting an interested coworker to a munch or a party as a totally reasonable thing to do if it naturally came up.
A mix of anecdotal stories from friends, and the common posts up here, like Tim, clearly claiming that this happens and he and his wife are part of it.
Tim said his wife “views inviting coworkers to BDSM parties is a completely reasonable thing to do”. I agree that this is ambiguous, which is why I wrote my comment. But I don’t see how you can interpret it as a clear claim that she is a manager at an EA org who invites her direct reports to BDSM parties and asks them to perform submissive acts? (Unless your “this exact scenario” was intended to be hyperbole?)
that this creates extremely unhealthy and abusive power dynamics
Can you say more about what you mean by “this”? If you mean inviting subordinates then I agree, but not if you mean inviting equals you have strong reason to think would like to be invited.
I think inviting equals you have strong reason to think would be invited is also problematic. People don’t stay equals forever. They get promoted, move to other orgs, leave and receive grants, etc.
Like I said I don’t have a fully fleshed out way to fix the problem of sex influencing decisions that should be made impartially, but it’s clearly a problem in my view.
Without the addition of polyamory, I think it’s fine in a limited sense. However if every single person in a position of power in EA is also dating another person of power, even monogamously, I would see that as a problem.
Adding in polyamory on top of that complicates things to a far greater degree. As a disclaimer I have nothing against polyamory, I just think it can lead to unhealthy workplace dynamics if it becomes a norm.
A mix of anecdotal stories from friends, and the common posts up here, like Tim, clearly claiming that this happens and he and his wife are part of it.
Perhaps the ‘frequently’ is uncharitable, I’m admittedly a bit frustrated on this topic. Still it seems like you aren’t really answering the core of my criticism—that this creates extremely unhealthy and abusive power dynamics...
You might be underrating the role of theatricality in the culture, the role silliness plays in the appeal for a lot of people, not to mention the high bar for communication and introspection. Heck, people of the culture are known to say things like “can I hug you?” which is more interpersonally scrupulous than the base rate “normal” person who, I’ve observed, seem use this “hugs for women; handshakes for men” heuristic that it’s super autistic to second guess.
I think if the community theater was putting on King Lear, and my boss got the part of the king, and I got the part of a servant, no one would think there’s a CoI or unscrupulosity, right? or if I got the part of Lear and my boss got the part of a servant, whatever.
(flagging that I’m hesitating to participate in subthread because topicalness, but didn’t think leading a pivot to DMs made sense since the cat was already out of the bag)
I’m admittedly not in the polyamory/SF/Rationalist part of the EA movement, and going based off second or third-hand stories and things posted on the EA forum.
I didn’t claim anything of that sort. Neither of us work for an EA org. My wife strongly does not identify as EA. I’m not even BDSM. I just claim my wife would consider inviting an interested coworker to a munch or a party as a totally reasonable thing to do if it naturally came up.
Tim said his wife “views inviting coworkers to BDSM parties is a completely reasonable thing to do”. I agree that this is ambiguous, which is why I wrote my comment. But I don’t see how you can interpret it as a clear claim that she is a manager at an EA org who invites her direct reports to BDSM parties and asks them to perform submissive acts? (Unless your “this exact scenario” was intended to be hyperbole?)
Can you say more about what you mean by “this”? If you mean inviting subordinates then I agree, but not if you mean inviting equals you have strong reason to think would like to be invited.
I think inviting equals you have strong reason to think would be invited is also problematic. People don’t stay equals forever. They get promoted, move to other orgs, leave and receive grants, etc.
Like I said I don’t have a fully fleshed out way to fix the problem of sex influencing decisions that should be made impartially, but it’s clearly a problem in my view.
Do you also think it’s a problem for equals to start dating?
Without the addition of polyamory, I think it’s fine in a limited sense. However if every single person in a position of power in EA is also dating another person of power, even monogamously, I would see that as a problem.
Adding in polyamory on top of that complicates things to a far greater degree. As a disclaimer I have nothing against polyamory, I just think it can lead to unhealthy workplace dynamics if it becomes a norm.