“If you’re religious, then the most effectively altruist thing is to convert everyone because of the infinite utility of Heaven” is not nearly as clever as you think it is. Every religious effective altruist has heard this argument from a hundred different atheists, including ones whose religion does not actually include a concept of Heaven. No religious effective altruist is doing this. Stop bringing it up.
I don’t believe this is representative of Christians involved in EA, but the Pay It Forward Foundation advocated applying EA principles to “saving souls” in addition to recommending GiveWell top charities.
The website now redirects to effectivegive.org, but it’s not clear to me whether they’ve stopped trying to “save souls” or if they’re just more subtle about it. For instance, if I click through the donate section, I still see an option to donate to the “Save a Soul Program.”
What strikes me as odd to me is this organization doesn’t appear to me to operate in a way considered necessarily effective or respectable by the standards of Christian international aid either, let alone EA standards, based on what I know of them. Like, most Christian organizations working in the developing world may have a hand in evangelism, yes, but they partially do so by materially benefiting the charitable recipients as well, such as teaching children how to read, or building and then teaching them in Christian schools. It’s not clear from the website this org does any of that.
This creates the issue where if the Pay It Forward Foundation, or its staff or supporters, identify as both Christian and EA, there are in fact some Christian EAs who believe evangelism in this manner is the most good they can do. Most EAs might not be comfortable with that, but the Pay It Forward Foundation might not take us seriously if we tell them they’re not effective, because obviously they’re going by their own standards of what they think ‘effective altruism’ means. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t bother associating with EA in the first place while being so different from the rest of EA.
While they are the minority, there are a significant number of Christian effective altruists. While how to approach the Pay It Forward Foundation seems awkward (at least to me), I think the next best step might be to ask some Christian community members what they think of the Pay It Forward Foundation, and how they believe the community should approach them, if approaching instead of ignoring them is something any of us decides is worthwhile.
I don’t believe this is representative of Christians involved in EA, but the Pay It Forward Foundation advocated applying EA principles to “saving souls” in addition to recommending GiveWell top charities.
The website now redirects to effectivegive.org, but it’s not clear to me whether they’ve stopped trying to “save souls” or if they’re just more subtle about it. For instance, if I click through the donate section, I still see an option to donate to the “Save a Soul Program.”
What strikes me as odd to me is this organization doesn’t appear to me to operate in a way considered necessarily effective or respectable by the standards of Christian international aid either, let alone EA standards, based on what I know of them. Like, most Christian organizations working in the developing world may have a hand in evangelism, yes, but they partially do so by materially benefiting the charitable recipients as well, such as teaching children how to read, or building and then teaching them in Christian schools. It’s not clear from the website this org does any of that.
This creates the issue where if the Pay It Forward Foundation, or its staff or supporters, identify as both Christian and EA, there are in fact some Christian EAs who believe evangelism in this manner is the most good they can do. Most EAs might not be comfortable with that, but the Pay It Forward Foundation might not take us seriously if we tell them they’re not effective, because obviously they’re going by their own standards of what they think ‘effective altruism’ means. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t bother associating with EA in the first place while being so different from the rest of EA.
While they are the minority, there are a significant number of Christian effective altruists. While how to approach the Pay It Forward Foundation seems awkward (at least to me), I think the next best step might be to ask some Christian community members what they think of the Pay It Forward Foundation, and how they believe the community should approach them, if approaching instead of ignoring them is something any of us decides is worthwhile.