I’m a bit unsettled by this post. One of the major concerns about utilitarian recently on the forum has been the means justify the ends thinking that would licence people to do bad things in the pursuit of good ends.
It’s completely right that EA should distance himself from a sort of Fraud to Give scheme. But equally protests for a good cause that involve causing lots of harm to the public by blocking roads should also be rejected.
I guess I’m just a bit worried if lots of EAs are associated with the Extinction Rebellion/Just Stop Oil etc stuff.
I don’t know if you’ve seen but there’s also been some push back that the ends must justify the means sometimes at least! I mean with the case of Martin Luther King, he was definitely inconveniencing people with his disruptive protests, but we all look back on him now as a moral hero, do we not? Surely equality for black people in the US, which then spurred a shift towards racism being immoral globally, was worth the price of people not being able to sit in certain seats on a bus or lunch counter?
Regarding EAs being associated with Extinction Rebellion or JSO, I think we’re a long way off that! To my knowledge, there are very few people in both camps, and even less who are openly in both camps. I think amongst the current major concerns for EA, that is quite far down the list.
So personally I think there’s a bit of a difference with that example given there were all sorts of laws preventing black people’s political participation at the time. Also the fact MLK embraced non violence indicates that there are still lots of relevant side constraints on actions beyond just ends justifying the means.
Extinction Rebellion & Just Stop Oil are also both explicitly non-violent so the same side constraints apply! Fair enough re the lack of ability of black people to participate in politics, but there’s more recent examples e.g. LGBT folks using disruptive protest to raise awareness about the AIDS/HIV epidemic or marriage equality which we now (mostly) also look back on as justified.
I’m a bit unsettled by this post. One of the major concerns about utilitarian recently on the forum has been the means justify the ends thinking that would licence people to do bad things in the pursuit of good ends.
It’s completely right that EA should distance himself from a sort of Fraud to Give scheme. But equally protests for a good cause that involve causing lots of harm to the public by blocking roads should also be rejected.
I guess I’m just a bit worried if lots of EAs are associated with the Extinction Rebellion/Just Stop Oil etc stuff.
XR: Extinction Rebellion, JSO: Just Stop Oil
(I wasn’t familiar with these abbreviations and it took me a minute to figure them out.)
Sorry, editing to make this easier
I don’t know if you’ve seen but there’s also been some push back that the ends must justify the means sometimes at least! I mean with the case of Martin Luther King, he was definitely inconveniencing people with his disruptive protests, but we all look back on him now as a moral hero, do we not? Surely equality for black people in the US, which then spurred a shift towards racism being immoral globally, was worth the price of people not being able to sit in certain seats on a bus or lunch counter?
Regarding EAs being associated with Extinction Rebellion or JSO, I think we’re a long way off that! To my knowledge, there are very few people in both camps, and even less who are openly in both camps. I think amongst the current major concerns for EA, that is quite far down the list.
So personally I think there’s a bit of a difference with that example given there were all sorts of laws preventing black people’s political participation at the time. Also the fact MLK embraced non violence indicates that there are still lots of relevant side constraints on actions beyond just ends justifying the means.
Good to know about your second bit.
Extinction Rebellion & Just Stop Oil are also both explicitly non-violent so the same side constraints apply! Fair enough re the lack of ability of black people to participate in politics, but there’s more recent examples e.g. LGBT folks using disruptive protest to raise awareness about the AIDS/HIV epidemic or marriage equality which we now (mostly) also look back on as justified.