I’m not particularly knowledgeable about this but my take is:
Yes enlightenment is real, for some understanding of what “enlightenment” means.
As I understand, enlightenment doesn’t free you from all suffering. Enlightenment is better described as “ego death”, where you stop identifying with your experiences. There is a sense in which you still suffer but you don’t identify with your suffering.
Enlightenment is extremely hard to achieve (it requires spending >10% of your waking life meditating for many years) and doesn’t appear to make you particularly better at anything. Like if I could become enlightened and then successfully work 80 hours a week because I stop caring about things like motivation and tiredness, that would be great, but I don’t think that’s possible.
Thanks for taking the time to comment Michael! I appreciate it :)
I probably should have mentioned in my post that I’ve spent probably > 1000 hours consuming Buddhist related content and/or meditating, which gives me a narrow and deep “inside view” on the topic. My views (and comments below) are heavily informed by Tibetan Buddhism especially. Regarding your points:
“As I understand, enlightenment doesn’t free you from all suffering. Enlightenment is better described as “ego death”
My 2 cents is that the path to Enlightenment can be started (but not fully realised) by glimpsing the illusory nature subject/object duality. The self is the ultimate “subject”, so I agree that “ego death” is a viable path!
I think full Enlightenment frees someone from basically all unnecessary suffering (which in Buddhism is distinguished from pain). A simple formula is something like “discomfort x resistance = suffering”. An enlightened person in my view wouldn’t be attached to a particular moment or it’s content, and therefore wouldn’t “cling” to or “resist” it.
“Enlightenment is extremely hard to achieve (it requires spending >10% of your waking life meditating for many years) and doesn’t appear to make you particularly better at anything. Like if I could become enlightened and then successfully work 80 hours a week because I stop caring about things like motivation and tiredness, that would be great, but I don’t think that’s possible.”
I think full Enlightenment is extremely hard to achieve, like you said, but getting 10% of the way there is totally within a normal persons grasp. I think it is plausible this could have the same increase in wellbeing for your average person as a good diet and exercise combined. Maybe more.
I think becoming partly Enlightened could make a person more altruistic but less driven. Hard to say!
If you’re interested in exploring this further from a personal perspective, I recommend checking out Loch Kelly :)
Imo full enlightenment really means, or should mean, no suffering. There is no necessary suffering anyway. The Buddha, or the classic teaching, are pretty clear if you ask me. One can debate how to translate the noble truths but its pretty clear to me the fourth one says suffering can be completely overcome.
FWIW you can get much faster progress combining meditation with psychedelics. Though as the Buddha said you must investigate for yourself, don’t take anyones word for spiritual truth. Also enlightenment absolutely does make you better at most stuff. Including partial enlightenment. People just say ‘you can suffer and be enlightened’ and ‘enlightenment doesnt make you better at things’ because they either want to feel accomplished or be accomplished. The Buddha sought the highest star, he was never satisfied by the teachers of his time. Let us emulate him by seeking only the highest star. In fact lets not settle for merely copying his methods. The original Sangha didn’t even have LSD, we can do one better.
I’m not particularly knowledgeable about this but my take is:
Yes enlightenment is real, for some understanding of what “enlightenment” means.
As I understand, enlightenment doesn’t free you from all suffering. Enlightenment is better described as “ego death”, where you stop identifying with your experiences. There is a sense in which you still suffer but you don’t identify with your suffering.
Enlightenment is extremely hard to achieve (it requires spending >10% of your waking life meditating for many years) and doesn’t appear to make you particularly better at anything. Like if I could become enlightened and then successfully work 80 hours a week because I stop caring about things like motivation and tiredness, that would be great, but I don’t think that’s possible.
Thanks for taking the time to comment Michael! I appreciate it :)
I probably should have mentioned in my post that I’ve spent probably > 1000 hours consuming Buddhist related content and/or meditating, which gives me a narrow and deep “inside view” on the topic. My views (and comments below) are heavily informed by Tibetan Buddhism especially. Regarding your points:
“As I understand, enlightenment doesn’t free you from all suffering. Enlightenment is better described as “ego death”
My 2 cents is that the path to Enlightenment can be started (but not fully realised) by glimpsing the illusory nature subject/object duality. The self is the ultimate “subject”, so I agree that “ego death” is a viable path!
I think full Enlightenment frees someone from basically all unnecessary suffering (which in Buddhism is distinguished from pain). A simple formula is something like “discomfort x resistance = suffering”. An enlightened person in my view wouldn’t be attached to a particular moment or it’s content, and therefore wouldn’t “cling” to or “resist” it.
“Enlightenment is extremely hard to achieve (it requires spending >10% of your waking life meditating for many years) and doesn’t appear to make you particularly better at anything. Like if I could become enlightened and then successfully work 80 hours a week because I stop caring about things like motivation and tiredness, that would be great, but I don’t think that’s possible.”
I think full Enlightenment is extremely hard to achieve, like you said, but getting 10% of the way there is totally within a normal persons grasp. I think it is plausible this could have the same increase in wellbeing for your average person as a good diet and exercise combined. Maybe more.
I think becoming partly Enlightened could make a person more altruistic but less driven. Hard to say!
If you’re interested in exploring this further from a personal perspective, I recommend checking out Loch Kelly :)
Imo full enlightenment really means, or should mean, no suffering. There is no necessary suffering anyway. The Buddha, or the classic teaching, are pretty clear if you ask me. One can debate how to translate the noble truths but its pretty clear to me the fourth one says suffering can be completely overcome.
FWIW you can get much faster progress combining meditation with psychedelics. Though as the Buddha said you must investigate for yourself, don’t take anyones word for spiritual truth. Also enlightenment absolutely does make you better at most stuff. Including partial enlightenment. People just say ‘you can suffer and be enlightened’ and ‘enlightenment doesnt make you better at things’ because they either want to feel accomplished or be accomplished. The Buddha sought the highest star, he was never satisfied by the teachers of his time. Let us emulate him by seeking only the highest star. In fact lets not settle for merely copying his methods. The original Sangha didn’t even have LSD, we can do one better.