My sense from a very quick skim of the literature is:
There are barely any studies or RCTs on non-dual mindfulness, and certainly not enough to make a conclusion about it having a larger-than-normal effect size[1][2]
The most highly-cited meta-analyses that do split out types of meditation either directly find no significant difference between kinds, or claim they don’t have enough evidence for a difference in their discussions[1:1][2:1]
The effect size is no better or worse than other psychotherapies
It might be possible to do some special pleading around non-dual mindfulness in particular, but frankly, everyone who has their own flavour of mindfulness does a lot of special pleading around it, so I’m default skeptical despite non-dual being my personal preference.
My sense as an experienced non-dual meditator (~10 years, and having experienced ‘ego death’ before without psychedelics):
I am skeptical that at-will or permanent ego death is possible. By ‘at-will’, I mean with an ease similar to meditating, with effects lasting longer than an acid trip.
I am skeptical that this state would even be desirable; most people that have tried psychedelics aren’t on a constant low dose (despite that having few downsides for people not prone to psychosis).
Even if it is possible and desirable, I am skeptical that there is a path to this kind of enlightenment for every person, and it might only be possible for a very small percentage of people even with the motivation and infinite free time to practice
I think teaching people mindfulness would be good, but probably no better than teaching them any other kind of therapy. Maybe it’s generally more acceptable because it’s less stigmatised than self-learning CBT. But I’d be really curious to understand what the people who voted yes were thinking, and in particular what they think ‘enlightenment’ is.
With regards to the 3rd point above, most of these studies compare meditation, not enlightenment, to other mental health interventions. Their finding that meditation is no better than CBT is not a negative. Since there is no “one size fit all” psychotherapy, having more options should be a net positive for mental health. Also, if meditation practice can lead to something more, even if that thing is not the end of all suffering, and even if it is rare, that increases the value of meditation practice.
I agree that this finding is not a negative, and that including mindfulness should be a net positive for mental health interventions (especially since it’ll adapt well to a lot of cultural contexts). The reason I included this null-ish result was to indicate that Vipassana-style mindfulness is unlikely to produce measurable ‘enlightenment’ when scaled up as an intervention—otherwise, where is it hiding in these studies? The burden of proof is with mindfulness proponents to find evidence that their method produces the superior effects they claim it does (a) when scaled up and (b) within a time-frame that would make it cost-effective.
(FWIW I think that it probably produces non-inferior effects at scale on comparable timeframes, and for some small number of the population might achieve superiority after some time with the method, but this wouldn’t make it a superior candidate for a global health intervention)
My sense from a very quick skim of the literature is:
There are barely any studies or RCTs on non-dual mindfulness, and certainly not enough to make a conclusion about it having a larger-than-normal effect size[1][2]
The most highly-cited meta-analyses that do split out types of meditation either directly find no significant difference between kinds, or claim they don’t have enough evidence for a difference in their discussions[1:1][2:1]
The effect size is no better or worse than other psychotherapies
It might be possible to do some special pleading around non-dual mindfulness in particular, but frankly, everyone who has their own flavour of mindfulness does a lot of special pleading around it, so I’m default skeptical despite non-dual being my personal preference.
My sense as an experienced non-dual meditator (~10 years, and having experienced ‘ego death’ before without psychedelics):
I am skeptical that at-will or permanent ego death is possible. By ‘at-will’, I mean with an ease similar to meditating, with effects lasting longer than an acid trip.
I am skeptical that this state would even be desirable; most people that have tried psychedelics aren’t on a constant low dose (despite that having few downsides for people not prone to psychosis).
Even if it is possible and desirable, I am skeptical that there is a path to this kind of enlightenment for every person, and it might only be possible for a very small percentage of people even with the motivation and infinite free time to practice
I think teaching people mindfulness would be good, but probably no better than teaching them any other kind of therapy. Maybe it’s generally more acceptable because it’s less stigmatised than self-learning CBT. But I’d be really curious to understand what the people who voted yes were thinking, and in particular what they think ‘enlightenment’ is.
https://doi.org/10.1037/a0028168
https://doi.org/10.1001/jamainternmed.2013.13018
With regards to the 3rd point above, most of these studies compare meditation, not enlightenment, to other mental health interventions. Their finding that meditation is no better than CBT is not a negative. Since there is no “one size fit all” psychotherapy, having more options should be a net positive for mental health. Also, if meditation practice can lead to something more, even if that thing is not the end of all suffering, and even if it is rare, that increases the value of meditation practice.
I agree that this finding is not a negative, and that including mindfulness should be a net positive for mental health interventions (especially since it’ll adapt well to a lot of cultural contexts). The reason I included this null-ish result was to indicate that Vipassana-style mindfulness is unlikely to produce measurable ‘enlightenment’ when scaled up as an intervention—otherwise, where is it hiding in these studies? The burden of proof is with mindfulness proponents to find evidence that their method produces the superior effects they claim it does (a) when scaled up and (b) within a time-frame that would make it cost-effective.
(FWIW I think that it probably produces non-inferior effects at scale on comparable timeframes, and for some small number of the population might achieve superiority after some time with the method, but this wouldn’t make it a superior candidate for a global health intervention)
Hey mate! Would you be keen to discuss this over a zoom chat?