Thanks for your response. I don’t think we disagree on as much as I thought, then! I suppose I’m less confident than you that those disagreements down the line aren’t going to lead to the same sort of backlash that we currently see.
If we see EA as a community of individuals who are attempting to do good better (by their own lights), then while I certainly agree that the contributions of non-utilitarians are net-positive from a utilitarian perspective, we utilitarian EAs (including leaders of the movement, who some might say have an obligation to be more neutral for PR purposes) may still think it’s best to try to persuade others that our preferred causes should be prioritised even if it comes at the expense of bad PR and turning away some non-utilitarians. Given that philosophy may cause people to decisively change their views on prioritisation, spreading certain philosophical views may also be important.
I guess I am somewhat cheekily attempting to shift the burden of responsibility back onto non-utilitarians. As you say, even people like Torres are on board with the core ideas of EA, so in my view they should be engaging in philosophical and cause prioritisation debates from within the movement (as EAs do all the time, as you note) instead of trying to sabotage the entire project. But I do appreciate that this has become more difficult to do. I think it’s true that the ‘official messaging’ has subtly moved away from the idea that there are different ‘wings’ of EA (global health, animal welfare, existential risk) and toward an idea that not everyone will be able to get on board with (though I still think they should be able to, like many existing non-utilitarian EAs).
Trust seems to be important here. EAs can have philosophical and cause prioritisation disagreements while trusting that people who disagree with them are committed to doing good and are probably doing some amount of good (longtermists can think global health people are doing some good, and vice-versa). Similarly, two utilitarians can as you say disagree empirically about the relative intensity of pleasure and suffering in different species without suspecting that the other isn‘t making a good faith attempt to understand how to maximise utility. On the other hand, critics like Torres and possibly some of the others you mentioned may think that EA is actively doing harm (and/or that prominent EAs are actively evil). One way it could be doing harm is by diverting resources away from the causes they think are important (and instead of trying to argue for their causes from within the movement, they may, on consequentialist grounds, think it’s better to try to damage the movement).
All of this is to say that I think these ‘disagreements down the line’ are mostly to blame for the current state of affairs and can’t really be avoided, while conceding that ‘official EA messaging’ has also played its part (but, as a take-no-prisoners utilitarian, I’m not really sure whether that’s net-negative or not!)
Thanks for your response. I don’t think we disagree on as much as I thought, then! I suppose I’m less confident than you that those disagreements down the line aren’t going to lead to the same sort of backlash that we currently see.
If we see EA as a community of individuals who are attempting to do good better (by their own lights), then while I certainly agree that the contributions of non-utilitarians are net-positive from a utilitarian perspective, we utilitarian EAs (including leaders of the movement, who some might say have an obligation to be more neutral for PR purposes) may still think it’s best to try to persuade others that our preferred causes should be prioritised even if it comes at the expense of bad PR and turning away some non-utilitarians. Given that philosophy may cause people to decisively change their views on prioritisation, spreading certain philosophical views may also be important.
I guess I am somewhat cheekily attempting to shift the burden of responsibility back onto non-utilitarians. As you say, even people like Torres are on board with the core ideas of EA, so in my view they should be engaging in philosophical and cause prioritisation debates from within the movement (as EAs do all the time, as you note) instead of trying to sabotage the entire project. But I do appreciate that this has become more difficult to do. I think it’s true that the ‘official messaging’ has subtly moved away from the idea that there are different ‘wings’ of EA (global health, animal welfare, existential risk) and toward an idea that not everyone will be able to get on board with (though I still think they should be able to, like many existing non-utilitarian EAs).
Trust seems to be important here. EAs can have philosophical and cause prioritisation disagreements while trusting that people who disagree with them are committed to doing good and are probably doing some amount of good (longtermists can think global health people are doing some good, and vice-versa). Similarly, two utilitarians can as you say disagree empirically about the relative intensity of pleasure and suffering in different species without suspecting that the other isn‘t making a good faith attempt to understand how to maximise utility. On the other hand, critics like Torres and possibly some of the others you mentioned may think that EA is actively doing harm (and/or that prominent EAs are actively evil). One way it could be doing harm is by diverting resources away from the causes they think are important (and instead of trying to argue for their causes from within the movement, they may, on consequentialist grounds, think it’s better to try to damage the movement).
All of this is to say that I think these ‘disagreements down the line’ are mostly to blame for the current state of affairs and can’t really be avoided, while conceding that ‘official EA messaging’ has also played its part (but, as a take-no-prisoners utilitarian, I’m not really sure whether that’s net-negative or not!)