âHowever, even if they were completely 100% failing, then there is still a very important thing that we can learn from them: what have they tried that didnât work? It is just as important to figure out pitfalls and failed projects as it is to try and find successful case studies.â
This is completely fair. Youâre right that I thought you were suggesting we should emulate, which on closer inspection isnât an accurate reading of your post.
With that said, my experience of talking to the âniceâ people more internal to feminism (which includes my soon-to-be-wife, among others) about this is that they tend to deny or excuse the external optics problems, rather than making a bona fide attempt to deal with them. You canât compare notes if they donât have notes. If you know leaders who are aware of and actually trying to fix the problem, then I agree you should talk to them and I hope you do learn something of their positive or negative experiences which we might be able to apply.
Yeah, I can see how that could be an issue, and honestly I do lean towards the âthe external optics problem is the patriarchyâs fault, not oursâtelling us that we are ânot nice enoughâ is just a form of silencing, and you wouldnât listen to us anyway if we were ânicerââ viewpoint, but I can see how that can make this discussion difficult. Iâm just mostly hoping that the discussions on âcalling-inâ within feminism move forwardâeven a quick google search shows that itâs popping up on a lot of the feminist sights targeted to younger audiencesâit may be on oncoming change, and hopefully itâll pick up steam.
âHowever, even if they were completely 100% failing, then there is still a very important thing that we can learn from them: what have they tried that didnât work? It is just as important to figure out pitfalls and failed projects as it is to try and find successful case studies.â
This is completely fair. Youâre right that I thought you were suggesting we should emulate, which on closer inspection isnât an accurate reading of your post.
With that said, my experience of talking to the âniceâ people more internal to feminism (which includes my soon-to-be-wife, among others) about this is that they tend to deny or excuse the external optics problems, rather than making a bona fide attempt to deal with them. You canât compare notes if they donât have notes. If you know leaders who are aware of and actually trying to fix the problem, then I agree you should talk to them and I hope you do learn something of their positive or negative experiences which we might be able to apply.
Yeah, I can see how that could be an issue, and honestly I do lean towards the âthe external optics problem is the patriarchyâs fault, not oursâtelling us that we are ânot nice enoughâ is just a form of silencing, and you wouldnât listen to us anyway if we were ânicerââ viewpoint, but I can see how that can make this discussion difficult. Iâm just mostly hoping that the discussions on âcalling-inâ within feminism move forwardâeven a quick google search shows that itâs popping up on a lot of the feminist sights targeted to younger audiencesâit may be on oncoming change, and hopefully itâll pick up steam.
Congratulations on your engagement by the way!