For a norm to be a norm, it needs to be enforced via social pressure (most commonly using shame, but other forms too) or else it is not really a norm. What would it mean to have a norm against drinking with reports if someone repeatedly and publicly got drunk with reports and proceeded to receive no social sanction of any kind? If by “norm” you strictly mean “advocacy for organizational policy” and not “exerting social pressure” then I am with you. However, that is not how most people use the term. Personally, I would react much more positively to a post that said “orgs should have policies against drinking with reports” vs. “avoid drinking with reports” (and for the record I fully support orgs having policies of not drinking with reports).
Maybe I should be saying “meta norm” or something? For many of these where I’d like it to be is something like “we agree that organizations should have policies against their employees from doing X”. So these would be norms about what policies EA orgs should have?
But there are also cases where I do think norms among individuals make sense (and should have included this in my comment above). For example, norms against people at EA meetups, especially organizers, hitting on first-timers.
Yes. I’d agree with that. Strong push for organizations, competitions, grant-makers and events to have norms addressing certain set of issues (i.e. we could have a “must address list”). Norms should be adjustable to a group character and stuff like the country’s culture. Plus some gentle community norms (it’s not ok for an event organizer/special guest to hit on first-timers). Plus empathetic helpline and even resource center for those, who ended up being in an ambiguous situation with regard to those norms, or have trouble setting them due to i.e. pre-existent interpersonal dynamics or even personal traits. So they are encouraged to be mindful, address problems, acknowledge mistakes and seek best solutions instead of being ashamed and try to sweep things under the rug. Would you agree? :)
While I agree that it’s good for this not to happen, a guest is probably the person there who has the least information about who the first timers are.
Yes, I’d agree. It wasn’t a very well thought-through example. If we remove a “special guest” part, would it make the whole comment more solid and understandable?
For a norm to be a norm, it needs to be enforced via social pressure (most commonly using shame, but other forms too) or else it is not really a norm. What would it mean to have a norm against drinking with reports if someone repeatedly and publicly got drunk with reports and proceeded to receive no social sanction of any kind? If by “norm” you strictly mean “advocacy for organizational policy” and not “exerting social pressure” then I am with you. However, that is not how most people use the term. Personally, I would react much more positively to a post that said “orgs should have policies against drinking with reports” vs. “avoid drinking with reports” (and for the record I fully support orgs having policies of not drinking with reports).
Maybe I should be saying “meta norm” or something? For many of these where I’d like it to be is something like “we agree that organizations should have policies against their employees from doing X”. So these would be norms about what policies EA orgs should have?
But there are also cases where I do think norms among individuals make sense (and should have included this in my comment above). For example, norms against people at EA meetups, especially organizers, hitting on first-timers.
Yes. I’d agree with that. Strong push for organizations, competitions, grant-makers and events to have norms addressing certain set of issues (i.e. we could have a “must address list”). Norms should be adjustable to a group character and stuff like the country’s culture. Plus some gentle community norms (it’s not ok for an event organizer/special guest to hit on first-timers). Plus empathetic helpline and even resource center for those, who ended up being in an ambiguous situation with regard to those norms, or have trouble setting them due to i.e. pre-existent interpersonal dynamics or even personal traits. So they are encouraged to be mindful, address problems, acknowledge mistakes and seek best solutions instead of being ashamed and try to sweep things under the rug. Would you agree? :)
While I agree that it’s good for this not to happen, a guest is probably the person there who has the least information about who the first timers are.
Yes, I’d agree. It wasn’t a very well thought-through example. If we remove a “special guest” part, would it make the whole comment more solid and understandable?