I mean, what about Alameda and FTX? Also early CEA. Also what about nonlinear? Of course not exactly the same as Leverage, but neither has any other rationalist-adjacent org.
FTX and Alameda sound extremely bad (obviously worse in effect than Leverage!) to me in a way that is not particularly “cult”, although I get that’s a bit vague (and stories of SBF threatening people are closer to that, as opposed to the massive fraud.) As for the other stuff, I haven’t heard the relevant stories, but you may be right, I am not particularly clued into this stuff, and it’s possible it’s just coincidence I have heard about crazy founder worship, and sleep deprivation etc. , vague stuff about cleansing yourself of “metaphorically” demonic forces, at Leverage but not at those other places. I recall bullying accusations against someone high up at Nonlinear, but not the details. Probably I shouldn’t have made the relative comparison between rationalists and non-rationalists, because I haven’t really been following who all the orgs are, and what they’ve been doing. Though on the other hand, I feel like the rationalists have hit a high enough level of cult-y incidents that the default is probably that other orgs are less like that. But maybe I should have just stuck to ‘there are conflicting reports on whether epistemics are actually all that good in the Bay scene, and some reasonable evidence against.’
I mean, what about Alameda and FTX? Also early CEA. Also what about nonlinear? Of course not exactly the same as Leverage, but neither has any other rationalist-adjacent org.
FTX and Alameda sound extremely bad (obviously worse in effect than Leverage!) to me in a way that is not particularly “cult”, although I get that’s a bit vague (and stories of SBF threatening people are closer to that, as opposed to the massive fraud.) As for the other stuff, I haven’t heard the relevant stories, but you may be right, I am not particularly clued into this stuff, and it’s possible it’s just coincidence I have heard about crazy founder worship, and sleep deprivation etc. , vague stuff about cleansing yourself of “metaphorically” demonic forces, at Leverage but not at those other places. I recall bullying accusations against someone high up at Nonlinear, but not the details. Probably I shouldn’t have made the relative comparison between rationalists and non-rationalists, because I haven’t really been following who all the orgs are, and what they’ve been doing. Though on the other hand, I feel like the rationalists have hit a high enough level of cult-y incidents that the default is probably that other orgs are less like that. But maybe I should have just stuck to ‘there are conflicting reports on whether epistemics are actually all that good in the Bay scene, and some reasonable evidence against.’