I’m sorry you’ve gotten flak. I don’t think you deserve it. I think you did the right thing, and the silence of other people “in the know” doesn’t reflect particularly well on them. (Not in the sense that we should call them out, but in the sense that they should maybe think about whether they knowingly let a likely-innocent person suffer unjust reputation harm.)
I think there’s a culture of fear around these kinds of issues that it’s useful to bring to the foreground if we want to model them correctly.
Agreed. I think the culture of fear goes in both directions. Women often seem to fear making accusations.
But I think you’re gesturing at a point where if I appear to be implicitly criticizing Maya for bringing that up, fewer people will bring things like that up in the future, and even if this particular episode was false, many similar ones will be true, so her bringing it up is positive expected value, so I shouldn’t sound critical in any way that discourages future people from doing things like that.
Not what I was gesturing at, but potentially valid.
My thinking is that attempts to share info “in good faith” should not be punished, regardless of whether that info pushes towards condemnation vs exoneration. (We can debate what exactly counts as “good faith”, but I think it should be defined ~symmetrically for both types of info. I’d like more discussion of what constitutes “good faith”, and fewer implications that [call-outs/denials] are always bad. I’m open to super restrictive definitions of “good faith”, like “only share info with CEA’s community health team and trust them to take appropriate action” or similar.)
In any case, my main goal was to get you to reciprocate what I saw as the OP’s attempt to be less triggered/more constructive, so thanks for that.
I did not know Kathy well, but I did meet and talk with her at length on a number of occasions in EA/aligned spaces. We talked about cultural issues in the movement and for what it is worth, she came across as someone of good character, good judgement and measured takes.
I am not across the particulars of her accusations and I feel matters like this have a place, actual courts and not forums. I don’t think cherry picked criticisms of her claims are appropriate.
I think EA will continue to stumble on this issue, and our downfall as a movement will continue to be handling deontologicaly or virtuously abhorrent behaviour.
I think the author of this forum post has been points of great importance. In particular, their critique of the style of writing required to be taken seriously and understood in the manner intended, is novel.
Thanks for removing the sentence.
I’m sorry you’ve gotten flak. I don’t think you deserve it. I think you did the right thing, and the silence of other people “in the know” doesn’t reflect particularly well on them. (Not in the sense that we should call them out, but in the sense that they should maybe think about whether they knowingly let a likely-innocent person suffer unjust reputation harm.)
Agreed. I think the culture of fear goes in both directions. Women often seem to fear making accusations.
Not what I was gesturing at, but potentially valid.
My thinking is that attempts to share info “in good faith” should not be punished, regardless of whether that info pushes towards condemnation vs exoneration. (We can debate what exactly counts as “good faith”, but I think it should be defined ~symmetrically for both types of info. I’d like more discussion of what constitutes “good faith”, and fewer implications that [call-outs/denials] are always bad. I’m open to super restrictive definitions of “good faith”, like “only share info with CEA’s community health team and trust them to take appropriate action” or similar.)
In any case, my main goal was to get you to reciprocate what I saw as the OP’s attempt to be less triggered/more constructive, so thanks for that.
I did not know Kathy well, but I did meet and talk with her at length on a number of occasions in EA/aligned spaces. We talked about cultural issues in the movement and for what it is worth, she came across as someone of good character, good judgement and measured takes.
I am not across the particulars of her accusations and I feel matters like this have a place, actual courts and not forums. I don’t think cherry picked criticisms of her claims are appropriate.
I think EA will continue to stumble on this issue, and our downfall as a movement will continue to be handling deontologicaly or virtuously abhorrent behaviour.
I think the author of this forum post has been points of great importance. In particular, their critique of the style of writing required to be taken seriously and understood in the manner intended, is novel.