yes, if such a standard existed, i do think the similarities between these issues would be closer to outweighing their differences, and could see myself supportive a version of the Pledge in this context besides two remaining differences:
1. regarding food, both parties are already planning on making a new purchase, whereas regarding clothes, they aren’t. so while the liberation pledge is simply asking our acquaintances to make a new purchase they already plan to make in a different way, a pledge related to clothing is asking others to either retroactively make different purchases or make new purchases they didn’t plan to make.
2. the harms from clothing are further removed than with food. with food, the purchase and consumption happens in real time (which is why i think it’s so important to oppose/boycott in those moments). with clothes, the purchase occurred in the distant past, and the cost of its use is spread out over time (with every instance one wears it).
these differences, imo, make enforcement of a pledge related to clothing more costly, its messaging less direct, and thus its impact less positive.
[though to be fair, if such a list existed and following it was fairly practicable (as practicable as, say, finding vegan food), i’m sure you could convince of implementing it in some other way directed towards stigmatizing the brands that were on it]
I definitely agree that both of those differences are relevant and and I do understand why you might support one type of pledge but not the other due to these differences. But it’s still the closest analogy I can think of for how non-vegans might feel in this situation, so I’m still curious about how you personally would react if someone you barely knew told you that wearing a particular set of brands was a precondition for meeting them. I personally would feel really put off by it and in all likelihood just wouldn’t meet them because it would feel weird and controlling.
Do you think that your first reaction to someone insisting you wear something would be to look through your closet to try and accommodate or to think “ehh, do I really want to see this person after all”?
I wouldn’t be surprised if you can in good faith say that you would first look through your closet. But even then, consider that you are clearly an outlier among the general population in terms of how much you are willing to change your personal behavior to reduce suffering and also in terms of how comfortable you are with norms around pointing out how others are contributing to suffering. If you can honestly say that you would look through your closet before reconsidering the meeting, I would even push you to imagine being asked to do something even more extreme (I don’t know what “more extreme” would mean for you, but something more inconvenient for what seems to you to have a less obvious connection to morality).
I frequently have meals with colleagues and acquaintances that I don’t know well. Some of my co-diners have eventually gone on to become vegan or even directly worked on animal welfare issues in some small part because of my influence. But if I had made this pledge I would just never have gotten to know them at all. More than that I think I personally would fail to accommodate closely analogous (e.g. the clothing) version of this pledge and would never learn more about the issue. Do you share that concern?
to answer your last question first, yes, i do share that concern! i think it is a very real and important consideration all Pledgers should center in the way we communicate it to others. (and while i note that a few times in the article, i could definitely have emphasized that stronger. thanks for flagging it). that said, i do think it is possible to communicate it in a way that is open, vulnerable, and engaging.
to answer your first question—how i would react—perhaps its easiest to note my initial reaction to the Pledge. when i first heard about it, i was openly against it. i thought it was problematic and counterproductive. however, the more i sat with the arguments for and against, the more i found myself changing my mind. that’s a common feature in my psychology (initial skepticism, leading to gradual warming). i think this reaction is fairly common (and has been my experience with practicing the pledge). so while i don’t expect the Pledge to always be welcomed with open arms (though have found the vast majority of people i’ve asked to accommodate me have been more than happy to do so), in the instances where that isn’t the case i believe the Pledge enables us to plant a firm seed that, while perhaps initially uncomfortable, ultimately creates the environment for positive growth moving forward.
yes, if such a standard existed, i do think the similarities between these issues would be closer to outweighing their differences, and could see myself supportive a version of the Pledge in this context besides two remaining differences:
1. regarding food, both parties are already planning on making a new purchase, whereas regarding clothes, they aren’t. so while the liberation pledge is simply asking our acquaintances to make a new purchase they already plan to make in a different way, a pledge related to clothing is asking others to either retroactively make different purchases or make new purchases they didn’t plan to make.
2. the harms from clothing are further removed than with food. with food, the purchase and consumption happens in real time (which is why i think it’s so important to oppose/boycott in those moments). with clothes, the purchase occurred in the distant past, and the cost of its use is spread out over time (with every instance one wears it).
these differences, imo, make enforcement of a pledge related to clothing more costly, its messaging less direct, and thus its impact less positive.
[though to be fair, if such a list existed and following it was fairly practicable (as practicable as, say, finding vegan food), i’m sure you could convince of implementing it in some other way directed towards stigmatizing the brands that were on it]
I definitely agree that both of those differences are relevant and and I do understand why you might support one type of pledge but not the other due to these differences. But it’s still the closest analogy I can think of for how non-vegans might feel in this situation, so I’m still curious about how you personally would react if someone you barely knew told you that wearing a particular set of brands was a precondition for meeting them. I personally would feel really put off by it and in all likelihood just wouldn’t meet them because it would feel weird and controlling.
Do you think that your first reaction to someone insisting you wear something would be to look through your closet to try and accommodate or to think “ehh, do I really want to see this person after all”?
I wouldn’t be surprised if you can in good faith say that you would first look through your closet. But even then, consider that you are clearly an outlier among the general population in terms of how much you are willing to change your personal behavior to reduce suffering and also in terms of how comfortable you are with norms around pointing out how others are contributing to suffering. If you can honestly say that you would look through your closet before reconsidering the meeting, I would even push you to imagine being asked to do something even more extreme (I don’t know what “more extreme” would mean for you, but something more inconvenient for what seems to you to have a less obvious connection to morality).
I frequently have meals with colleagues and acquaintances that I don’t know well. Some of my co-diners have eventually gone on to become vegan or even directly worked on animal welfare issues in some small part because of my influence. But if I had made this pledge I would just never have gotten to know them at all. More than that I think I personally would fail to accommodate closely analogous (e.g. the clothing) version of this pledge and would never learn more about the issue. Do you share that concern?
to answer your last question first, yes, i do share that concern! i think it is a very real and important consideration all Pledgers should center in the way we communicate it to others. (and while i note that a few times in the article, i could definitely have emphasized that stronger. thanks for flagging it). that said, i do think it is possible to communicate it in a way that is open, vulnerable, and engaging.
to answer your first question—how i would react—perhaps its easiest to note my initial reaction to the Pledge. when i first heard about it, i was openly against it. i thought it was problematic and counterproductive. however, the more i sat with the arguments for and against, the more i found myself changing my mind. that’s a common feature in my psychology (initial skepticism, leading to gradual warming). i think this reaction is fairly common (and has been my experience with practicing the pledge). so while i don’t expect the Pledge to always be welcomed with open arms (though have found the vast majority of people i’ve asked to accommodate me have been more than happy to do so), in the instances where that isn’t the case i believe the Pledge enables us to plant a firm seed that, while perhaps initially uncomfortable, ultimately creates the environment for positive growth moving forward.