Yeah. I think Bensinger has some posts about how steelmanning may be corrosive, and ideological turing tests (ITT) are the actual targeted social technology (but that unfortunately people think steelmanning is better than it is)
I think this condescension idea you discuss is actually a fatal criticism of steelmanning, and ITT is how to explore cooperation with alien (to you) minds. The difference is basically that steelmanning draws you toward “make up a guy”, it’s kinda fun to think “what if there was a guy who thought xyz” and then work backwards for a plausible chain of facts/logic. It’s not necessarily related to actually existing minds, so this activity is technically asocial! Whereas ITT has some of similar good properties yet shifts the emphasis on building bridges with a mind that in actuality, not just plausibly, exists.
I admit that there are numerous values of “outgroup” such that I think my simulation of them in my brain is way more sophisticated and justified than the actually existing proponents that I’ve ever met. This is not good. I may be more charitable and enthusiastic about cooperation under pluralism if I had a more ITT emphasis.
Yeah. I think Bensinger has some posts about how steelmanning may be corrosive, and ideological turing tests (ITT) are the actual targeted social technology (but that unfortunately people think steelmanning is better than it is)
I think this condescension idea you discuss is actually a fatal criticism of steelmanning, and ITT is how to explore cooperation with alien (to you) minds. The difference is basically that steelmanning draws you toward “make up a guy”, it’s kinda fun to think “what if there was a guy who thought xyz” and then work backwards for a plausible chain of facts/logic. It’s not necessarily related to actually existing minds, so this activity is technically asocial! Whereas ITT has some of similar good properties yet shifts the emphasis on building bridges with a mind that in actuality, not just plausibly, exists.
I admit that there are numerous values of “outgroup” such that I think my simulation of them in my brain is way more sophisticated and justified than the actually existing proponents that I’ve ever met. This is not good. I may be more charitable and enthusiastic about cooperation under pluralism if I had a more ITT emphasis.