I did a skim through of the research here while debating pro-lifers and came away persuaded that fetal anesthetic past the first trimester probably should be encouraged as a precautionary measure, assuming it doesn’t harm the mother. However there seems to be high uncertainty about the suffering experienced in the 12-24 week period and even some uncertainty up to 30 weeks. A fetus is not directly comparable to a grown human or a grown animal: if a bundle of connected neurons are receiving pain signals, I’m not sure that necessarily proves that some sentient entity is experiencing pain.
Regardless, I don’t think this issue conflicts much or at all with the pro-choice position, which I strongly hold. first, if you use the anesthetic, then most of the suffering involved goes away. Second, it seems like increased abortion access might plausibly reduce fetal suffering: if someone is forced to fly to another state for an abortion, the abortion occurs later on, when more cortical pathways have been formed. (I would still support abortion for autonomy reasons even if this weren’t true).
I have my doubts as to whether this can compete with animal rights, in terms of suffering reduction. Numerically there are about 20 billion factory farmed animals, which is 4 or 5 orders of magnitude higher than the number of late-term abortions each year. And the suffering from a late-term abortion only happens once, whereas an animal in a factory farm might suffer their entire life. And a grown cow certainly seems more sentient than a 13 week old human fetus. The only way I could see it competing is on tractability.
I also very much agree that there’s no conflict between this and the pro-choice position, and that increased abortion access would reduce fetal suffering in late-term abortions. (Although increasing abortion access has other, larger ethical problems—from a total utilitarian perspective, there doesn’t seem to be much difference between preventing a fetus from living a full life and doing the same for an infant or adult.)
On comparing individual fetuses to individual farm animals, it’s worth noting that a 13-week fetus has about half as many neurons as an adult cow. (Cows have 3 billion neurons, while 13-week fetuses have 3 billion brain cells. Since humans have a near 1:1 neuron-glia ratio, a 13-week fetus’s neuron count should be about half as many as a cow’s.) So on at least one metric, they’d be pretty comparable. Of course, I’m pretty sure this fact is swamped by the other facts about factory farming you gave.
I agree that this probably wouldn’t be competitive with animal welfare. However, if we’re holding it to the standard for suffering-reducing interventions for humans, it could plausibly be more competitive.
It’s been a while since I looked through it, but my impression is that the billion neurons of the fetus are hanging out on the cortical plate and havent fully migrated to their final configurations, which may affect things. My impression was that the cow exhibits far more evidence of sentience than the fetus, for example giving much more similar brain activity to a grown human on an EEG. However this was from a skim a few months ago, so I would be interested in a more thorough investigation.
I agree that this probably wouldn’t be competitive with animal welfare. However, if we’re holding it to the standard for suffering-reducing interventions for humans, it could plausibly be more competitive.
I think that even for someone who only cared about the suffering of humans and human fetuses but not animals (a hard position to justify philosophically), it would still be a hard sell, for the same reason as before: The suffering of humans can occur over long periods of time, whereas an abortion is relatively quick. In addition, even if a 13-week fetus experiences some pain, would it compare in intensity to a grown infant?
I think the only way it could compete would be if the intervention was very cheap and easy, like if there was an easy way to persuade a medical group to change their recommendations.
Nonetheless, I think it’s a topic worth at least thinking about! It’s important to be sensitive though, as this is a justifiably emotionally charged topic for a lot of people.
I did a skim through of the research here while debating pro-lifers and came away persuaded that fetal anesthetic past the first trimester probably should be encouraged as a precautionary measure, assuming it doesn’t harm the mother. However there seems to be high uncertainty about the suffering experienced in the 12-24 week period and even some uncertainty up to 30 weeks. A fetus is not directly comparable to a grown human or a grown animal: if a bundle of connected neurons are receiving pain signals, I’m not sure that necessarily proves that some sentient entity is experiencing pain.
Regardless, I don’t think this issue conflicts much or at all with the pro-choice position, which I strongly hold. first, if you use the anesthetic, then most of the suffering involved goes away. Second, it seems like increased abortion access might plausibly reduce fetal suffering: if someone is forced to fly to another state for an abortion, the abortion occurs later on, when more cortical pathways have been formed. (I would still support abortion for autonomy reasons even if this weren’t true).
I have my doubts as to whether this can compete with animal rights, in terms of suffering reduction. Numerically there are about 20 billion factory farmed animals, which is 4 or 5 orders of magnitude higher than the number of late-term abortions each year. And the suffering from a late-term abortion only happens once, whereas an animal in a factory farm might suffer their entire life. And a grown cow certainly seems more sentient than a 13 week old human fetus. The only way I could see it competing is on tractability.
Happy to hear we agree on fetal anesthesia :)
I also very much agree that there’s no conflict between this and the pro-choice position, and that increased abortion access would reduce fetal suffering in late-term abortions. (Although increasing abortion access has other, larger ethical problems—from a total utilitarian perspective, there doesn’t seem to be much difference between preventing a fetus from living a full life and doing the same for an infant or adult.)
On comparing individual fetuses to individual farm animals, it’s worth noting that a 13-week fetus has about half as many neurons as an adult cow. (Cows have 3 billion neurons, while 13-week fetuses have 3 billion brain cells. Since humans have a near 1:1 neuron-glia ratio, a 13-week fetus’s neuron count should be about half as many as a cow’s.) So on at least one metric, they’d be pretty comparable. Of course, I’m pretty sure this fact is swamped by the other facts about factory farming you gave.
I agree that this probably wouldn’t be competitive with animal welfare. However, if we’re holding it to the standard for suffering-reducing interventions for humans, it could plausibly be more competitive.
It’s been a while since I looked through it, but my impression is that the billion neurons of the fetus are hanging out on the cortical plate and havent fully migrated to their final configurations, which may affect things. My impression was that the cow exhibits far more evidence of sentience than the fetus, for example giving much more similar brain activity to a grown human on an EEG. However this was from a skim a few months ago, so I would be interested in a more thorough investigation.
I think that even for someone who only cared about the suffering of humans and human fetuses but not animals (a hard position to justify philosophically), it would still be a hard sell, for the same reason as before: The suffering of humans can occur over long periods of time, whereas an abortion is relatively quick. In addition, even if a 13-week fetus experiences some pain, would it compare in intensity to a grown infant?
I think the only way it could compete would be if the intervention was very cheap and easy, like if there was an easy way to persuade a medical group to change their recommendations.
Nonetheless, I think it’s a topic worth at least thinking about! It’s important to be sensitive though, as this is a justifiably emotionally charged topic for a lot of people.