I hope that I never have to share a confidential draft with you if those are your standards of proper conduct when someone does so.
It’s pretty difficult for me to respond to this kind of personal rudeness politely. I don’t think this is the kind of discourse that will make our community better.
I already said several times that Wise shouldn’t have shared the draft with MacAskill, that it was a serious error, that the breach of confidentiality is per se bad, et cetera et cetera. This is not in dispute, even by CEA.
I don’t care if you’re personally rude to me or not. I’m just a throwaway account and I assure you that my feelings won’t be hurt by you failing to be polite on an online forum. If my comment comes across as rude, keep in mind that I don’t write anything I don’t mean to say—I legitimately would not share a confidential draft with you given the views you’ve expressed in this thread so far, because I consider you to be insufficiently trustworthy.
Setting that aside, what I want to understand is how you think Guzey somehow comes across worse in this incident than MacAskill and Wise. I think it’s very hard to tell a story of this incident in which MacAskill was not intentionally deceptive on an issue with only trivial stakes. Julia Wise was at best incompetent and at worst complicit ex post after having leaked the draft by accident, as she didn’t reveal that the draft had been leaked to Guzey.
She looks even worse because this incident wasn’t added to the page of CEA’s mistakes until after Guzey discussed the incident in public 3 years after it took place. I can imagine Wise acting in good faith throughout this episode, but I can’t imagine the same for MacAskill, and it’s MacAskill that I really care about.
I already stated, IMO fairly clearly, why I think Guzey comes across poorly in this incident. I think there’s insufficient evidence of malice here, that your & Guzey’s stories of what a conspiracy to harm Guzey aimed to actually achieve are way too thin, and that the strength of Guzey’s reaction & his accusations are seriously out of proportion to both the strength of his evidence and the actual harm that occurred (in a way that I think is consistent with the many other online dust-ups that Guzey regularly gets into).
I could start going through your comments and responding line by line, but given how low my credence is that you’re actually truth-seeking here, it doesn’t seem like a good use of my time.
I could start going through your comments and responding line by line, but given how low my credence is that you’re actually truth-seeking here, it doesn’t seem like a good use of my time.
This is a typical way in which people in EA shut down discussions of subjects they don’t like, especially when they involve members of the outgroup. You simply accuse the person disagreeing with you of being insufficiently truth-seeking (whatever that means).
I’ve told you what I think most likely happened, and you’ve offered no counterargument other than “I see no evidence of anyone trying to kill Guzey’s post”, even though what happened is obviously evidence (in the Bayesian sense) for MacAskill attempting to do exactly that. It’s not like MacAskill could have prevented the publication of the post on the forum. What he had the power to do was influence the reception of the post, and I believe his response did influence the reception in a negative direction.
Guzey’s post indeed “died” and some of his substantive criticisms of the book were not addressed at all. I think most of this was due to natural dynamics on the forum that were beyond MacAskill’s control, but he certainly tried to accelerate this process and (I believe) succeeded in doing so. Whether that means he tried to kill the post or not is up to your judgment.
It’s pretty difficult for me to respond to this kind of personal rudeness politely. I don’t think this is the kind of discourse that will make our community better.
I already said several times that Wise shouldn’t have shared the draft with MacAskill, that it was a serious error, that the breach of confidentiality is per se bad, et cetera et cetera. This is not in dispute, even by CEA.
I don’t care if you’re personally rude to me or not. I’m just a throwaway account and I assure you that my feelings won’t be hurt by you failing to be polite on an online forum. If my comment comes across as rude, keep in mind that I don’t write anything I don’t mean to say—I legitimately would not share a confidential draft with you given the views you’ve expressed in this thread so far, because I consider you to be insufficiently trustworthy.
Setting that aside, what I want to understand is how you think Guzey somehow comes across worse in this incident than MacAskill and Wise. I think it’s very hard to tell a story of this incident in which MacAskill was not intentionally deceptive on an issue with only trivial stakes. Julia Wise was at best incompetent and at worst complicit ex post after having leaked the draft by accident, as she didn’t reveal that the draft had been leaked to Guzey.
She looks even worse because this incident wasn’t added to the page of CEA’s mistakes until after Guzey discussed the incident in public 3 years after it took place. I can imagine Wise acting in good faith throughout this episode, but I can’t imagine the same for MacAskill, and it’s MacAskill that I really care about.
I already stated, IMO fairly clearly, why I think Guzey comes across poorly in this incident. I think there’s insufficient evidence of malice here, that your & Guzey’s stories of what a conspiracy to harm Guzey aimed to actually achieve are way too thin, and that the strength of Guzey’s reaction & his accusations are seriously out of proportion to both the strength of his evidence and the actual harm that occurred (in a way that I think is consistent with the many other online dust-ups that Guzey regularly gets into).
I could start going through your comments and responding line by line, but given how low my credence is that you’re actually truth-seeking here, it doesn’t seem like a good use of my time.
This is a typical way in which people in EA shut down discussions of subjects they don’t like, especially when they involve members of the outgroup. You simply accuse the person disagreeing with you of being insufficiently truth-seeking (whatever that means).
I’ve told you what I think most likely happened, and you’ve offered no counterargument other than “I see no evidence of anyone trying to kill Guzey’s post”, even though what happened is obviously evidence (in the Bayesian sense) for MacAskill attempting to do exactly that. It’s not like MacAskill could have prevented the publication of the post on the forum. What he had the power to do was influence the reception of the post, and I believe his response did influence the reception in a negative direction.
Guzey’s post indeed “died” and some of his substantive criticisms of the book were not addressed at all. I think most of this was due to natural dynamics on the forum that were beyond MacAskill’s control, but he certainly tried to accelerate this process and (I believe) succeeded in doing so. Whether that means he tried to kill the post or not is up to your judgment.