I’m a bit confused. It answers your question unless you believe there are farms with more than half a million chickens / 5000 pigs under farm at a time which are not ‘Factory’ farms. Do you believe such farms exist? Do you have any evidence they exist? If not, in what way has your question not been answered?
Do you believe such farms exist? Do you have any evidence they exist?
I do know of one non-atrocity pig farm franchise that runs at least 5000 pigs worth of farms (IIRC they’re the main pork brand at most supermarkets in NZ) freedom farms. I’m having difficulty finding specifics about where the farms are and whether any individual freedom farm is huge. But they’d be good people to ask about this. Shall I?
Slow-growing chicken operations exist, why wouldn’t they aggregate into huge farms for economies of scale for the same reasons any industry does that?
That’s really interesting, and honestly pretty surprising—I’d really have to quite radically change my view if it turns out Freedom Farms have found a way to raise >5000 animals on one farm in conditions which are broadly acceptable. If I understand you correctly you’re saying that each individual farm could plausibly be much smaller than 5000 animals though, which I would still find interesting that there’s a way for the system to produce meat in aggregate without atrocity-level cruelty, but less challenging to my existing worldview because I think it is the ‘factory’ element of factory farms which is what drives them to be especially cruel.
I’d be very interested in anything you can find on the distribution of farm sizes—or if you can wait a week or two for me to get some work deadlines out the way I’d also be happy to investigate myself and get back to you.
I can certainly wait, as I still don’t eat pork for nutritional reasons (fat composition). I guess it should be you who makes contact, I’d be a lot less rigorous. If you need locals, I could connect you with people in the community. I don’t know anyone who’s been involved in pig welfare, but I know some people who’ve done chicken stuff (meat chicken welfare in NZ is still bad, but egg chicken welfare is mostly fine.)
At this point I’m expecting we’re going to find that yes, humane farms would benefit from aggregating, but still, very large contiguous parcels of land are just rare or hard to acquire, so a large number of stock on a single farm is going to be strongly correlated with overcrowding, as you expect.
the ‘factory’ element of factory farms
You still haven’t explained what you mean by this. A factory is just a process that produces something. A factory can have humans monitoring every stage of the process and making sure nothing is going wrong. A factory can be subject to certification requirements.
That sure is some information. Doesn’t address my question.
I’m a bit confused. It answers your question unless you believe there are farms with more than half a million chickens / 5000 pigs under farm at a time which are not ‘Factory’ farms. Do you believe such farms exist? Do you have any evidence they exist? If not, in what way has your question not been answered?
I do know of one non-atrocity pig farm franchise that runs at least 5000 pigs worth of farms (IIRC they’re the main pork brand at most supermarkets in NZ) freedom farms. I’m having difficulty finding specifics about where the farms are and whether any individual freedom farm is huge. But they’d be good people to ask about this. Shall I?
Slow-growing chicken operations exist, why wouldn’t they aggregate into huge farms for economies of scale for the same reasons any industry does that?
That’s really interesting, and honestly pretty surprising—I’d really have to quite radically change my view if it turns out Freedom Farms have found a way to raise >5000 animals on one farm in conditions which are broadly acceptable. If I understand you correctly you’re saying that each individual farm could plausibly be much smaller than 5000 animals though, which I would still find interesting that there’s a way for the system to produce meat in aggregate without atrocity-level cruelty, but less challenging to my existing worldview because I think it is the ‘factory’ element of factory farms which is what drives them to be especially cruel.
I’d be very interested in anything you can find on the distribution of farm sizes—or if you can wait a week or two for me to get some work deadlines out the way I’d also be happy to investigate myself and get back to you.
I can certainly wait, as I still don’t eat pork for nutritional reasons (fat composition). I guess it should be you who makes contact, I’d be a lot less rigorous. If you need locals, I could connect you with people in the community. I don’t know anyone who’s been involved in pig welfare, but I know some people who’ve done chicken stuff (meat chicken welfare in NZ is still bad, but egg chicken welfare is mostly fine.)
At this point I’m expecting we’re going to find that yes, humane farms would benefit from aggregating, but still, very large contiguous parcels of land are just rare or hard to acquire, so a large number of stock on a single farm is going to be strongly correlated with overcrowding, as you expect.
You still haven’t explained what you mean by this. A factory is just a process that produces something. A factory can have humans monitoring every stage of the process and making sure nothing is going wrong. A factory can be subject to certification requirements.