Amazing and super informative post! A few more thoughts on “predocs” (1-2 year post-BA full-time research assistantships focused on empirical work), which have exploded in popularity since the 80k article was written:
They’re increasingly a soft requirement for entry into top PhD programs. My impression from looking at the admit pools at the top ~5 schools this year is that virtually everyone either (a) did a predoc or (b) is an international student with a Master’s degree. The few students who got in straight out of undergrad were mostly students from very elite institutions (Harvard/MIT) interested in doing economic theory
I think doing a predoc at a top institution dominates doing a Master’s degree at a top institution, unless you’re interested in theory: you get paid fairly well, the skills you learn are much more relevant for research (unless you’re interested in theory), and you get more face-time with the faculty who write you recommendation letters.
Doing a predoc lets you “test run” doing a PhD, which I think is very valuable for undergrad EAs interested in economics:
You can figure out whether you actually enjoy/are good at the style of research that academic economists do.
It’s a very educational experience (you’re forced to quickly pick up technical skills, you get exposed to what cutting-edge economics research looks like, etc.). You might do a predoc and decide you’ve already learned enough to dive directly into an EA research or policy job.
One factor I severely underestimated when applying to predoc jobs is the importance of being a good “fit” in the sense of being personally interested in the kind of research you’d work on in that predoc job. If you don’t ultimately care about or aren’t interested in the research you’re assisting with, you end up being much less motivated and productive and both the educational and credentialing value of the predoc decrease substantially.
Thanks. My knowledge of what predocs are and what they involve is very limited. I hope to update this post with more information. It might be nice if RA jobs at EA orgs could take on the equivalence if a predoc, but I’m not sure how feasible this is.
They’re increasingly a soft requirement for entry into top PhD programs
To make it clear, I think you mean that it increasingly is a requirement, but not officially.
It’s a very educational experience (you’re forced to quickly pick up technical skills, you get exposed to what cutting-edge economics research looks like, etc.). You might do a predoc and decide you’ve already learned enough to dive directly into an EA research or policy job.
This is a good sign that it is a valuable experience.
I’m currently working as a predoc so am happy to chat if you have any questions. Honestly, I doubt RA jobs at EA orgs can achieve that in the foreseeable future, since so much of the value of a predoc comes in the form of a letter from a professor who’s tightly integrated into the network of top academic economists. Unless EA orgs can attract senior researchers with tight connections to faculty at top schools, and clout with those faculty, that won’t happen.
Right, hope we can do that. I suspect that the main issue is giving a credible letter of reference, not so much giving a letter that comes from someone with high academic status. So I’m a bit hopeful.
I have a good set of connections, and I think others at EA orgs do as well. And I hope we are hiring more from this pool going forward. Obviously some EA orgs like GPI are very much academically-connected.
Amazing and super informative post! A few more thoughts on “predocs” (1-2 year post-BA full-time research assistantships focused on empirical work), which have exploded in popularity since the 80k article was written:
They’re increasingly a soft requirement for entry into top PhD programs. My impression from looking at the admit pools at the top ~5 schools this year is that virtually everyone either (a) did a predoc or (b) is an international student with a Master’s degree. The few students who got in straight out of undergrad were mostly students from very elite institutions (Harvard/MIT) interested in doing economic theory
I think doing a predoc at a top institution dominates doing a Master’s degree at a top institution, unless you’re interested in theory: you get paid fairly well, the skills you learn are much more relevant for research (unless you’re interested in theory), and you get more face-time with the faculty who write you recommendation letters.
Doing a predoc lets you “test run” doing a PhD, which I think is very valuable for undergrad EAs interested in economics:
You can figure out whether you actually enjoy/are good at the style of research that academic economists do.
It’s a very educational experience (you’re forced to quickly pick up technical skills, you get exposed to what cutting-edge economics research looks like, etc.). You might do a predoc and decide you’ve already learned enough to dive directly into an EA research or policy job.
One factor I severely underestimated when applying to predoc jobs is the importance of being a good “fit” in the sense of being personally interested in the kind of research you’d work on in that predoc job. If you don’t ultimately care about or aren’t interested in the research you’re assisting with, you end up being much less motivated and productive and both the educational and credentialing value of the predoc decrease substantially.
Thanks. My knowledge of what predocs are and what they involve is very limited. I hope to update this post with more information. It might be nice if RA jobs at EA orgs could take on the equivalence if a predoc, but I’m not sure how feasible this is.
To make it clear, I think you mean that it increasingly is a requirement, but not officially.
This is a good sign that it is a valuable experience.
I’m currently working as a predoc so am happy to chat if you have any questions. Honestly, I doubt RA jobs at EA orgs can achieve that in the foreseeable future, since so much of the value of a predoc comes in the form of a letter from a professor who’s tightly integrated into the network of top academic economists. Unless EA orgs can attract senior researchers with tight connections to faculty at top schools, and clout with those faculty, that won’t happen.
Right, hope we can do that. I suspect that the main issue is giving a credible letter of reference, not so much giving a letter that comes from someone with high academic status. So I’m a bit hopeful.
I have a good set of connections, and I think others at EA orgs do as well. And I hope we are hiring more from this pool going forward. Obviously some EA orgs like GPI are very much academically-connected.