Very interesting. I haven’t come into contact with any student groups, so can’t comment on that. But here’s my experiences of what’s worked well and less well coming in as a longtime EA-ish giver in my late 30s looking for a more effective career:
Good
(Free) books: I love books—articles and TED talks are fine for getting a quick and simple understanding of something, but nothing beats the full understanding from a good book. And some of the key ones are being given away free! Picking out a few, the Alignment Problem, The Precipice and Scout Mindset give a grounding in AI alignment, longtermism/existential risk and rational thinking techniques, and once you have a handful under your belt you’re in a solid place to understand and contribute to some discussions. They’re good writers too; it’s not just information transfer. The approach of ‘here’s a free book, go away and read it, here’s some resources if you want to research further’ sounds like the polar opposite of what’s described above. It worked well for me. Maybe a proper ‘EA book starter list’ would help it work even better (there’s a germ of this lurking halfway down the page here, but surely this could be standalone and more loved...)
Introductions culture: People seem happy to give their time up to talk to you after exchanging a couple of messages. After meeting people they’re eager to introduce you to others you might be a good ‘match’ with or at least give leads. Apart from its obvious benefits this is really good for keeping spirits up early on when it might be a bit daunting otherwise.
80k careers guides: Pretty obvious but very well-written and a good starting point.
Jobs boards e.g. 80k, Work on Climate, Facebook/LinkedIn groups: Well-curated and give a clear view of what’s available in the sector and particular roles are generally well-written. On ones where people post their own jobs they almost always follow community norms. Not entirely free from the usual problems (hype, jobs without posted salaries) but better than most. I’ve seen some jobs that are what I want but in other countries, which makes me hopeful I’m looking in the right place, especially if I can also start meeting some more people. Talking of which...
This forum: Smart discussion, some key people on here writing and listening to feedback, seemed welcoming and receptive when I just rocked up and started writing some comments.
Less good
Occasionally, apparent coldness to immediate suffering: I’ve only seen this a bit, but even one example could be enough to put someone off for good. I can see what motivates it, but if a person says ‘I think x is one of the most pressing current problems’, and the response is what seems like a dismissive ‘well, x isn’t a genuinely existential risk so it’s not a priority’, it can come across as a lack of empathy or, at worst, humanity. It’s not the argument itself, as I’ve no issue with ranking charities or interventions and producing recommendations, but more the apparent absolutism and lack of compassion involved (even if, ironically, it could be produced by compassion for an imagined future greater good).
Processes that don’t seem fit for the scale of EA: I’ve bigged up 80k above so I’ll use them as an example here. Ordered a free book, it arrived, got an email later saying ‘ah looks like we have distribution problems, here’s a digital copy while you’re waiting’… then another one saying ‘oops forgot to attach it, here it is’. Signed up to 1:1 careers advice, heard nothing for 3 weeks, then ‘sorry, we can’t do you’, with no explanation. They did connect me with a local organiser, which was great, but didn’t pass on the responses I’d taken some time to think about, so we ended up covering some ground again.
Occasionally insular worldview: This comes from being concentrated in a small number of cities and often graduating from top universities. I linked this piece in another post, but it’s very good, so I’m linking it again.
Neutral but interesting
’Eccentric’ billionaires: Media seem to like this angle but it doesn’t really hold up in practice. The presence of the narrative did lead me to investigate the funding of EA in ways that I might not otherwise have done.
I’m still here, so clearly the good outweighs the rest!
Very interesting. I haven’t come into contact with any student groups, so can’t comment on that. But here’s my experiences of what’s worked well and less well coming in as a longtime EA-ish giver in my late 30s looking for a more effective career:
Good
(Free) books: I love books—articles and TED talks are fine for getting a quick and simple understanding of something, but nothing beats the full understanding from a good book. And some of the key ones are being given away free! Picking out a few, the Alignment Problem, The Precipice and Scout Mindset give a grounding in AI alignment, longtermism/existential risk and rational thinking techniques, and once you have a handful under your belt you’re in a solid place to understand and contribute to some discussions. They’re good writers too; it’s not just information transfer. The approach of ‘here’s a free book, go away and read it, here’s some resources if you want to research further’ sounds like the polar opposite of what’s described above. It worked well for me. Maybe a proper ‘EA book starter list’ would help it work even better (there’s a germ of this lurking halfway down the page here, but surely this could be standalone and more loved...)
Introductions culture: People seem happy to give their time up to talk to you after exchanging a couple of messages. After meeting people they’re eager to introduce you to others you might be a good ‘match’ with or at least give leads. Apart from its obvious benefits this is really good for keeping spirits up early on when it might be a bit daunting otherwise.
80k careers guides: Pretty obvious but very well-written and a good starting point.
Jobs boards e.g. 80k, Work on Climate, Facebook/LinkedIn groups: Well-curated and give a clear view of what’s available in the sector and particular roles are generally well-written. On ones where people post their own jobs they almost always follow community norms. Not entirely free from the usual problems (hype, jobs without posted salaries) but better than most. I’ve seen some jobs that are what I want but in other countries, which makes me hopeful I’m looking in the right place, especially if I can also start meeting some more people. Talking of which...
This forum: Smart discussion, some key people on here writing and listening to feedback, seemed welcoming and receptive when I just rocked up and started writing some comments.
Less good
Occasionally, apparent coldness to immediate suffering: I’ve only seen this a bit, but even one example could be enough to put someone off for good. I can see what motivates it, but if a person says ‘I think x is one of the most pressing current problems’, and the response is what seems like a dismissive ‘well, x isn’t a genuinely existential risk so it’s not a priority’, it can come across as a lack of empathy or, at worst, humanity. It’s not the argument itself, as I’ve no issue with ranking charities or interventions and producing recommendations, but more the apparent absolutism and lack of compassion involved (even if, ironically, it could be produced by compassion for an imagined future greater good).
Processes that don’t seem fit for the scale of EA: I’ve bigged up 80k above so I’ll use them as an example here. Ordered a free book, it arrived, got an email later saying ‘ah looks like we have distribution problems, here’s a digital copy while you’re waiting’… then another one saying ‘oops forgot to attach it, here it is’. Signed up to 1:1 careers advice, heard nothing for 3 weeks, then ‘sorry, we can’t do you’, with no explanation. They did connect me with a local organiser, which was great, but didn’t pass on the responses I’d taken some time to think about, so we ended up covering some ground again.
Occasionally insular worldview: This comes from being concentrated in a small number of cities and often graduating from top universities. I linked this piece in another post, but it’s very good, so I’m linking it again.
Neutral but interesting
’Eccentric’ billionaires: Media seem to like this angle but it doesn’t really hold up in practice. The presence of the narrative did lead me to investigate the funding of EA in ways that I might not otherwise have done.
I’m still here, so clearly the good outweighs the rest!
I would really like to ban the term “rounding error”.
I haven’t come across this yet… is it what I think it is?
Yep.
It seems pretty easy to optimise for consequentialist impact and still be more virtuous and principled than most people.
Maybe EA can lead to bad moral licensing effects in some people.
I really like that piece that you linked to. Thanks for including it.
In case anyone isn’t aware of it, that’s very much the demographic that CEEALAR (aka the EA hotel) is trying to support!