I downvoted this post. I really don’t like the first two paragraphs.
Something I’ve noticed recently is that people who are in a bad place in their lives tend to have a certain sticky sleazy black holey feel to them. Something around untrustworthiness, low integrity, optimizing for themselves regardless of the cost for the people around them.
To me, this reads as an unhelpful demonization of those who are struggling in life. At the far end of the spectrum, it could be something as serious as depression, which is already demonized.
I also don’t think it’s accurate. Anecdotally, I’ve never experienced those who are struggling to be any less trustworthy than those who are ‘ok’.
Then, it’s just reasonable to only be loyal to others as long as you can get something out of it yourself and to defect as soon as they don’t offer obvious short-term gains.
I also think this is wrong. True, people who are struggling may rely more on others for help, than they offer back to others. But if anything, I’ve found people who are struggling exhibit more of behaviour that tracks with something like ‘loyalty’. They tend to rely more on close friends and family, and do less speculative social gains-seeking exploration.
I don’t see how any reason to think that being a in a bad place leads to low integrity behaviour, and certainly not SBF-style bad behaviour.
Apologies in advance if I’ve misunderstood the point being made here.
Yup, I definitely overgeneralized here and may be completely off. I think there’s something where I’m pointing at, and this helps me clarify my thinking. So thanks.
Generally: I by no means want to demonize anyone for struggling. To a significant extent, I buy into a social model of mental health, and mostly see one person’s struggling as a symptom of their whole surrounding (social and other) being diseased.
My intention behind this post was to point out some ways in which I think EA is suboptimally organized. The rough claim I was aiming for is this: “It’s easier to be a saint in paradise, so let’s make EA a bit more paradisic by fixing some of our norms.”
I agree with that rough claim. And I liked the rest of the blog.
I guess I do see people who are struggling behaving badly sometimes. I just don’t think it’s in any more frequent than the general population. Or I see sometimes see them using the fact they’re struggling to justify their bad behaviour, and I don’t buy that.
I think a more steelmanned version of my initial claim would be that there’s a particular type of struggling that corresponds to low-integrity behavior, and that some aspects of current EA culture make it more likely for people to struggle in that particular way. Even (and maybe especially) if they are generally caring and well-meaning and honestly dedicated to the cause.
I think “scarcity mindset” is an okay handle.
A postrationalist friend also pointed out that what I’m talking about corresponds to Buddhism’s realm of hungry ghosts. In modern psychological reinterpretations of Buddhist mythology, that describes a mode of existence people can get stuck in when they develop the wrong kind of rumination. Basically, always being very aware of lack and what’s missing and being desperate to fill that up.
I’m not sure yet how useful either of these handles will turn out—but yet again, this whole post is an intellectual work in progress and I only reposted it here because people on Facebook found it surprisingly insightful.
I downvoted this post. I really don’t like the first two paragraphs.
To me, this reads as an unhelpful demonization of those who are struggling in life. At the far end of the spectrum, it could be something as serious as depression, which is already demonized.
I also don’t think it’s accurate. Anecdotally, I’ve never experienced those who are struggling to be any less trustworthy than those who are ‘ok’.
I also think this is wrong. True, people who are struggling may rely more on others for help, than they offer back to others. But if anything, I’ve found people who are struggling exhibit more of behaviour that tracks with something like ‘loyalty’. They tend to rely more on close friends and family, and do less speculative social gains-seeking exploration.
I don’t see how any reason to think that being a in a bad place leads to low integrity behaviour, and certainly not SBF-style bad behaviour.
Apologies in advance if I’ve misunderstood the point being made here.
Yup, I definitely overgeneralized here and may be completely off. I think there’s something where I’m pointing at, and this helps me clarify my thinking. So thanks.
Generally: I by no means want to demonize anyone for struggling. To a significant extent, I buy into a social model of mental health, and mostly see one person’s struggling as a symptom of their whole surrounding (social and other) being diseased.
My intention behind this post was to point out some ways in which I think EA is suboptimally organized. The rough claim I was aiming for is this: “It’s easier to be a saint in paradise, so let’s make EA a bit more paradisic by fixing some of our norms.”
I agree with that rough claim. And I liked the rest of the blog.
I guess I do see people who are struggling behaving badly sometimes. I just don’t think it’s in any more frequent than the general population. Or I see sometimes see them using the fact they’re struggling to justify their bad behaviour, and I don’t buy that.
I think a more steelmanned version of my initial claim would be that there’s a particular type of struggling that corresponds to low-integrity behavior, and that some aspects of current EA culture make it more likely for people to struggle in that particular way. Even (and maybe especially) if they are generally caring and well-meaning and honestly dedicated to the cause.
I think “scarcity mindset” is an okay handle.
A postrationalist friend also pointed out that what I’m talking about corresponds to Buddhism’s realm of hungry ghosts. In modern psychological reinterpretations of Buddhist mythology, that describes a mode of existence people can get stuck in when they develop the wrong kind of rumination. Basically, always being very aware of lack and what’s missing and being desperate to fill that up.
I’m not sure yet how useful either of these handles will turn out—but yet again, this whole post is an intellectual work in progress and I only reposted it here because people on Facebook found it surprisingly insightful.