This comment expresses something I was considering saying, but more clearly than I could. I would add that thinking strategically about this cultural phenomenon involves not only trying to understand its mechanism of action, but also coming up with frameworks for deciding what tradeoffs to make in response to it. I am personally very disturbed by the potential of cancel culture to undermine or destroy EA, and my natural reaction is to believe that we should stand firm and make no concessions to it, as well as to upvote posts and comments that express this sentiment. This is not, however, a position I feel I can endorse on reflection: it seems instead that protecting our movement against this risk involves striking a difficult and delicate balance between excessive and insufficient relaxation of our epistemic standards. By giving in too much the EA movement risks relinquishing its core principles, but by giving in too little the movement risks ruining its reputation. Unfortunately, I suspect that an open discussion of this issue may itself pose a reputational risk, and in fact I’m not sure it’s even a good idea to have public posts like the one this comment is responding to, however much I agree with it.
I would add that thinking strategically about this cultural phenomenon involves not only trying to understand its mechanism of action, but also coming up with frameworks for deciding what tradeoffs to make in response to it. I am personally very disturbed by the potential of cancel culture to undermine or destroy EA, and my natural reaction is to believe that we should stand firm and make no concessions to it, as well as to upvote posts and comments that express this sentiment. This is not, however, a position I feel I can endorse on reflection[...]
This seems right to me, and I upvoted to support (something like) this statement. I think there’s a great deal of danger in both directions here.
(Not just for reputational reasons. I also think that there are lots of SJ-aligned – but very sincere – EAs who are feeling pretty alienated from anti-CC EAs right now, and it would be very bad to lose them.)
It seems instead that protecting our movement against this risk involves striking a difficult and delicate balance between excessive and insufficient relaxation of our epistemic standards. By giving in too much the EA movement risks relinquishing its core principles, but by giving in too little the movement risks ruining its reputation.
The epistemic standards seem totally core to EA to me. If we relax much at all on those I think the expected future value of EA falls quite dramatically. The question to me is whether we can relax/alter our discourse norms without compromising those standards.
Unfortunately, it seems that an open discussion of this issue may itself pose a reputational risk, and in fact I’m not sure it’s even a good idea to have public posts like the one this comment is responding to, however much I agree with it.
I sympathise with this, but I think if we don’t have public posts like this one, the outcome is more-or-less decided in advance. If everyone who thinks something is bad remains silent for the sake of reputational harm, the discourse in the movement will be completely dominated by those who disagree with them, while those who would agree with them become alienated and discouraged. This will in turn determine who engages with the movement, and how it evolves in relation to that idea in the future.
If that outcome (in this case, broad adoption of the kinds of norms that give rise to cancel culture within EA) is unacceptable, some degree of public opposition is necessary.
I sympathise with this, but I think if we don’t have public posts like this one, the outcome is more-or-less decided in advance.
Yes, I agree. What I’m uncertain about is whether it’s desirable to have more of these posts at the current margin. And to be clear: by saying I’m uncertain whether it’s a good idea, I don’t mean to suggest it’s not a good idea; I’m simply agnostic.
This comment expresses something I was considering saying, but more clearly than I could. I would add that thinking strategically about this cultural phenomenon involves not only trying to understand its mechanism of action, but also coming up with frameworks for deciding what tradeoffs to make in response to it. I am personally very disturbed by the potential of cancel culture to undermine or destroy EA, and my natural reaction is to believe that we should stand firm and make no concessions to it, as well as to upvote posts and comments that express this sentiment. This is not, however, a position I feel I can endorse on reflection: it seems instead that protecting our movement against this risk involves striking a difficult and delicate balance between excessive and insufficient relaxation of our epistemic standards. By giving in too much the EA movement risks relinquishing its core principles, but by giving in too little the movement risks ruining its reputation. Unfortunately, I suspect that an open discussion of this issue may itself pose a reputational risk, and in fact I’m not sure it’s even a good idea to have public posts like the one this comment is responding to, however much I agree with it.
This seems right to me, and I upvoted to support (something like) this statement. I think there’s a great deal of danger in both directions here.
(Not just for reputational reasons. I also think that there are lots of SJ-aligned – but very sincere – EAs who are feeling pretty alienated from anti-CC EAs right now, and it would be very bad to lose them.)
The epistemic standards seem totally core to EA to me. If we relax much at all on those I think the expected future value of EA falls quite dramatically. The question to me is whether we can relax/alter our discourse norms without compromising those standards.
I sympathise with this, but I think if we don’t have public posts like this one, the outcome is more-or-less decided in advance. If everyone who thinks something is bad remains silent for the sake of reputational harm, the discourse in the movement will be completely dominated by those who disagree with them, while those who would agree with them become alienated and discouraged. This will in turn determine who engages with the movement, and how it evolves in relation to that idea in the future.
If that outcome (in this case, broad adoption of the kinds of norms that give rise to cancel culture within EA) is unacceptable, some degree of public opposition is necessary.
Yes, I agree. What I’m uncertain about is whether it’s desirable to have more of these posts at the current margin. And to be clear: by saying I’m uncertain whether it’s a good idea, I don’t mean to suggest it’s not a good idea; I’m simply agnostic.
Okay, sure, at the margin I agree it’s tricky. Both for reputational reasons, and the broad-tent/community-cohesion concerns I mention above.