Thank you for writing this post. Even without agreeing with the exact distinction as it’s made on the table, I think this is a good framing for an important problem. Specifically, I think the movement underestimates the importance of having a mismatch between how it presents itself and its exact focus.
The way I think about it is: (1) An individual encounters the movement and understands that the value they’re going to gain from it is X → (2) they decide to get involved because they want X → (3) it takes quite a while (months to years, depends on their involvement) to understand that the movement actually does Y OR sees they don’t get the value X they expected → (4) There’s a considerable they’re not as interested in Y and doesn’t get as involved as they originally thought they would.
It means that the movement: (1) Missed many people who would’ve been interested in Y, (2) invested its resources sub-optimally on people who seek X instead of people who seek Y.
I’ve experienced this on a weekly basis in EA Israel before we focused our strategy and branding on something that sounds like a members-focused approach. Even after doing that, I have dozens of stories of members being disappointed that the movement doesn’t offer them concrete tools for their own social action (as much as it offers tools on how to choose a cause area), or disappointed that the conferences are mostly about AI safety and biosecurity. Even with a strong member-first approach, the movement could still invest considerable resources into organizing AI safety conferences and biosecurity conferences—which would also attract professionals from outside the movement. And the movement could still be constructed in a way that gets people from the EA movement to these other conferences and communities.
I’m a bit time limited at the moment, but would be happy to discuss this with people working on this topic. I wrote before about this mismatch as a branding problem, tried to address this through better ways to explain what EA is, and got the chance to present EA Israel’s member-first approach at conferences (linked above) since CEA was interested in some different community-building results that came out of EA Israel. If you’re working on this topic and think I might be helpful, feel free to get in touch!
One last thought—I think that @Will Aldred’s framing in the comments is correct in describing a connection between how this approach could shape the structure of the movement. Moreover, l think this goes even beyond incentive structures—for instance, the mismatch described above between X and Y could be a good explanation for why community building efforts leans toward “multi-session programs where people are expected to attend most sessions”. This is because the current branding requires us to gradually move people from wanting X to understanding that Y is actually more important. This is kind of the opposite of product-market fit.
I’m not saying that either of the approaches is incorrect, but I think this mismatch is harmful. I hope this is resolved either way.
Thank you for writing this post. Even without agreeing with the exact distinction as it’s made on the table, I think this is a good framing for an important problem. Specifically, I think the movement underestimates the importance of having a mismatch between how it presents itself and its exact focus.
The way I think about it is:
(1) An individual encounters the movement and understands that the value they’re going to gain from it is X → (2) they decide to get involved because they want X → (3) it takes quite a while (months to years, depends on their involvement) to understand that the movement actually does Y OR sees they don’t get the value X they expected → (4) There’s a considerable they’re not as interested in Y and doesn’t get as involved as they originally thought they would.
It means that the movement: (1) Missed many people who would’ve been interested in Y, (2) invested its resources sub-optimally on people who seek X instead of people who seek Y.
I’ve experienced this on a weekly basis in EA Israel before we focused our strategy and branding on something that sounds like a members-focused approach. Even after doing that, I have dozens of stories of members being disappointed that the movement doesn’t offer them concrete tools for their own social action (as much as it offers tools on how to choose a cause area), or disappointed that the conferences are mostly about AI safety and biosecurity.
Even with a strong member-first approach, the movement could still invest considerable resources into organizing AI safety conferences and biosecurity conferences—which would also attract professionals from outside the movement. And the movement could still be constructed in a way that gets people from the EA movement to these other conferences and communities.
I’m a bit time limited at the moment, but would be happy to discuss this with people working on this topic. I wrote before about this mismatch as a branding problem, tried to address this through better ways to explain what EA is, and got the chance to present EA Israel’s member-first approach at conferences (linked above) since CEA was interested in some different community-building results that came out of EA Israel. If you’re working on this topic and think I might be helpful, feel free to get in touch!
One last thought—I think that @Will Aldred’s framing in the comments is correct in describing a connection between how this approach could shape the structure of the movement. Moreover, l think this goes even beyond incentive structures—for instance, the mismatch described above between X and Y could be a good explanation for why community building efforts leans toward “multi-session programs where people are expected to attend most sessions”. This is because the current branding requires us to gradually move people from wanting X to understanding that Y is actually more important. This is kind of the opposite of product-market fit.
I’m not saying that either of the approaches is incorrect, but I think this mismatch is harmful. I hope this is resolved either way.
I’m glad that I tricked you into sharing more of your thoughts :)
I think you give good reasons for the harms of an incoherent community-building strategy.