I don’t have much sympathy for those demanding a good reason why the post wasn’t delayed. While I’m generally quite pro sharing posts with orgs, I think it’s quite important that this doesn’t give the org the right to delay or prevent the posting. This goes double given the belief of both the author and their witnesses that Nonlinear is not acting in good faith.
There seem to be enough uncontested/incontestable claims made in this post for me to feel comfortable recommending that junior folks in the community stay away from Nonlinear. These include asking employees to carry out illegal actions they’re not comfortable with, and fairly flagrantly threatening employees with retaliation for saying bad things about them (Kat’s text screenshotted above is pretty blatant here).
Less confidently, I would be fairly surprised if I come out of the other end of this, having seen Nonlinear’s defence/evidence, and don’t continue to see the expenses-plus-tiny-salary setup as manipulative and unhealthy.
More confidently than anything on this list, Nonlinear’s threatening to sue Lightcone for Ben’s post is completely unacceptable, decreases my sympathy for them by about 98%, and strongly updates me in the direction that refusing to give in to their requested delay was the right decision. In my view, it is quite a strong update that the negative portrayal of Emerson Spartz in the OP is broadly correct. I don’t think we as a community should tolerate this, and I applaud Lightcone for refusing to give in to such heavy-handed coercion.
The reason we urge everyone to withhold judgment is because even what currently look like “uncontested/incontestable claims” are, in fact, very much contestable.
For example: “(Kat’s text screenshotted above is pretty blatant here).”
I agree that it does indeed look blatant here. But when you see the full context—the parts Alice conspicuously did not include—the meaning will change radically, to the point where you will likely question Alice’s other claims and ‘evidence’.
The problem with Kat’s text is that it’s a very thinly veiled threat to end someone’s career in an attempt to control Nonlinear’s image. There is no context that justifies such a threat.
Just for the record, I think there are totally contexts that could justify that threat. I would be surprised if one of those had occurred here, but I can totally imagine scenarios where the behavior in the screenshot is totally appropriate (or at the very least really not that bad, given the circumstances).
I really respect that even in the middle of all this you (and other members of the LW team) still team leave comments like these.
I think serious mistakes were made in how this situation was handled but I have never doubted that you guys are trying your best to help the community, and comments like this are proof of that.
Could any realistic scenario justify both the threat and not dishing on the employees bad behavior when asked about them, in order to stop the employee bad-mouthing you though? Presumably someone would have to have behaved incredibly badly before threatening their career could possibly be appropriate, but then you surely shouldn’t be prepared to tell friends and acquaintances at allied orgs that the person is fine, or keep silent about their misbehavior when asked about them.
I’m particularly interested in whether or not they were encouraged to break the law for people who had financial and professional power over them, which seems less nuanced than ‘how threatening is or isn’t this WhatsApp exchange’.
I’m not sure I’ve imagined a realistic justifying scenario yet, but in my experience it’s very easy to just fail to think of an example even though one exists. (Especially when I’m baking in some assumptions without realizing I’m baking them in.)
Could be! I might end up with egg on my face here, in which case I will do my best to admit it. That said, my most important claim is my last: if you wanted me and others to truly withhold judgement, you really shouldn’t have threatened to sue.
I concur with David. Irrespective of the circumstances, the threat is unmistakably apparent. It appears that thus far, both of you have issued threats to individuals, either to tarnish their reputation or to initiate legal action against them. Regrettably, these actions are not enhancing your own reputation. In fact, they are casting a shadow of suspicion upon you.
My thoughts, for those who want them:
I don’t have much sympathy for those demanding a good reason why the post wasn’t delayed. While I’m generally quite pro sharing posts with orgs, I think it’s quite important that this doesn’t give the org the right to delay or prevent the posting. This goes double given the belief of both the author and their witnesses that Nonlinear is not acting in good faith.
There seem to be enough uncontested/incontestable claims made in this post for me to feel comfortable recommending that junior folks in the community stay away from Nonlinear. These include asking employees to carry out illegal actions they’re not comfortable with, and fairly flagrantly threatening employees with retaliation for saying bad things about them (Kat’s text screenshotted above is pretty blatant here).
Less confidently, I would be fairly surprised if I come out of the other end of this, having seen Nonlinear’s defence/evidence, and don’t continue to see the expenses-plus-tiny-salary setup as manipulative and unhealthy.
More confidently than anything on this list, Nonlinear’s threatening to sue Lightcone for Ben’s post is completely unacceptable, decreases my sympathy for them by about 98%, and strongly updates me in the direction that refusing to give in to their requested delay was the right decision. In my view, it is quite a strong update that the negative portrayal of Emerson Spartz in the OP is broadly correct. I don’t think we as a community should tolerate this, and I applaud Lightcone for refusing to give in to such heavy-handed coercion.
The reason we urge everyone to withhold judgment is because even what currently look like “uncontested/incontestable claims” are, in fact, very much contestable.
For example: “(Kat’s text screenshotted above is pretty blatant here).”
I agree that it does indeed look blatant here. But when you see the full context—the parts Alice conspicuously did not include—the meaning will change radically, to the point where you will likely question Alice’s other claims and ‘evidence’.
The problem with Kat’s text is that it’s a very thinly veiled threat to end someone’s career in an attempt to control Nonlinear’s image. There is no context that justifies such a threat.
Just for the record, I think there are totally contexts that could justify that threat. I would be surprised if one of those had occurred here, but I can totally imagine scenarios where the behavior in the screenshot is totally appropriate (or at the very least really not that bad, given the circumstances).
I really respect that even in the middle of all this you (and other members of the LW team) still team leave comments like these.
I think serious mistakes were made in how this situation was handled but I have never doubted that you guys are trying your best to help the community, and comments like this are proof of that.
Could any realistic scenario justify both the threat and not dishing on the employees bad behavior when asked about them, in order to stop the employee bad-mouthing you though? Presumably someone would have to have behaved incredibly badly before threatening their career could possibly be appropriate, but then you surely shouldn’t be prepared to tell friends and acquaintances at allied orgs that the person is fine, or keep silent about their misbehavior when asked about them.
I’m particularly interested in whether or not they were encouraged to break the law for people who had financial and professional power over them, which seems less nuanced than ‘how threatening is or isn’t this WhatsApp exchange’.
I’m not sure I’ve imagined a realistic justifying scenario yet, but in my experience it’s very easy to just fail to think of an example even though one exists. (Especially when I’m baking in some assumptions without realizing I’m baking them in.)
Could be! I might end up with egg on my face here, in which case I will do my best to admit it. That said, my most important claim is my last: if you wanted me and others to truly withhold judgement, you really shouldn’t have threatened to sue.
I appreciate your willingness to update if we provide sufficient evidence to do so!
I concur with David. Irrespective of the circumstances, the threat is unmistakably apparent. It appears that thus far, both of you have issued threats to individuals, either to tarnish their reputation or to initiate legal action against them. Regrettably, these actions are not enhancing your own reputation. In fact, they are casting a shadow of suspicion upon you.