One person I was thinking about when I wrote the post was Medhi Hassan. According to Wikipedia:
During a sermon delivered in 2009, quoting a verse of the Quran, Hasan used the terms “cattle” and “people of no intelligence” to describe non-believers. In another sermon, he used the term “animals” to describe non-Muslims.
Medhi has spoken several times at the Oxford Union and also in a recent public debate on antisemitism, so clearly he’s not beyond the pale for many.
I personally also think that the “from the river to the sea” chant is pretty analogous to, say, white nationalist slogans. It does seem to have a complicated history, but in the wake of the October 7 attacks its association with Hamas should I think put it beyond the pale. Nevertheless, it has been defended by Rashida Tlaib. In general I am in favor of people being able to make arguments like hers, but I suspect that if Hanania were to make an argument for why a white nationalist slogan should be interpreted positively, it would be counted as a strong point against him.
I expect that either Hassan or Tlaib, were they interested in prediction markets, would have been treated in a similar way as Hanania by the Manifest organizers.
I don’t have more examples off the top of my head because I try not to follow this type of politics too much. I would be pretty surprised if an hour of searching didn’t turn up a bunch more though.
Hassan: Those comments were indeed egregious, but they were not about Jews specifically. Indeed much more recently (although still a while ago) Hassan has harshly criticised antisemitism in the British Muslim community. I can’t link on my phone but google “the sorry truth is that the virus of antisemitism has infected the British Muslim community”. I grant that this was comparably egregious to what Hanania said (I do think it is slightly less bad to attack literally everyone outside your small community than to target a vulnerable minority, but I wouldn’t rest much on that.*) If Hassan had said that more recently or I was convinced he still thought that, then I would agree he should not be invited to Manifest. But it’s not actually an example of prejudice against Jews specifically except to the extent that Jews are also not Muslim.
Tlaib: Well I wouldn’t use that phrase, and I’m inclined to say using it is antisemitic yes, because at the very least it creates an ambiguity about whether you mean it in the genocidal way. Having said that, given that there is a very clear non-genocidal reading, I do not think it is a clear example of hate speech in quite the same sense as Hanania’s animals remark. I’d also say that my strength of feeling against Hanania is influenced by the fact that he was an out and out white nationalist for years, and that he remains hostile to the civil rights act that ended Jim Crow and democratised the South.. If you can show me that Tlaib is or was a Hamas supporter, then yes, I’d say her saying “from the river to the sea” is at least as bad as Hanania’s animals comment. (Worse inherently, since that would make it a call for violence and genocide/ethnic cleansing. But I do think Palestinians are subject to forces that make resisting bigotry harder vis-a-vis Israelis, than it is for white Americans to resist white nationalism.)
*For example, I think the NYT should have fired Sarah Jeong even though her racist comments were “only” about whites, if you know that incident.you
If Hassan had said that more recently or I was convinced he still thought that, then I would agree he should not be invited to Manifest.
My claim is that the Manifest organizers should have the right to invite him even if he’d said that more recently. But appreciate you giving your perspective, since I did ask for that (just clarifying the “agree” part).
Having said that, given that there is a very clear non-genocidal reading, I do not think it is a clear example of hate speech in quite the same sense as Hanania’s animals remark
I have some object-level views about the relative badness but my main claim is more that this isn’t a productive type of analysis for a community to end up doing, partly because it’s so inherently subjective, so I support drawing lines that help us not need to do this analysis (like “organizers are allowed to invite you either way”).
Most Israeli Jews would call the phrase “From the river to the see” antisemitic. Myself being relatively on the far left in that group, and having spoken a lot with Palestinians online before the war, I’d argue that it’s antisemitic/calls for ethnic cleansing of Jews around 50% of the time. I would not prosecute or boycott someone based on it alone.
Edit: but most Israelis might choose not to come to a conference that would platform such a person, I guess. I think this is a different situation from the current real controversy, but make of it what you will.
One person I was thinking about when I wrote the post was Medhi Hassan. According to Wikipedia:
Medhi has spoken several times at the Oxford Union and also in a recent public debate on antisemitism, so clearly he’s not beyond the pale for many.
I personally also think that the “from the river to the sea” chant is pretty analogous to, say, white nationalist slogans. It does seem to have a complicated history, but in the wake of the October 7 attacks its association with Hamas should I think put it beyond the pale. Nevertheless, it has been defended by Rashida Tlaib. In general I am in favor of people being able to make arguments like hers, but I suspect that if Hanania were to make an argument for why a white nationalist slogan should be interpreted positively, it would be counted as a strong point against him.
I expect that either Hassan or Tlaib, were they interested in prediction markets, would have been treated in a similar way as Hanania by the Manifest organizers.
I don’t have more examples off the top of my head because I try not to follow this type of politics too much. I would be pretty surprised if an hour of searching didn’t turn up a bunch more though.
Hassan: Those comments were indeed egregious, but they were not about Jews specifically. Indeed much more recently (although still a while ago) Hassan has harshly criticised antisemitism in the British Muslim community. I can’t link on my phone but google “the sorry truth is that the virus of antisemitism has infected the British Muslim community”. I grant that this was comparably egregious to what Hanania said (I do think it is slightly less bad to attack literally everyone outside your small community than to target a vulnerable minority, but I wouldn’t rest much on that.*) If Hassan had said that more recently or I was convinced he still thought that, then I would agree he should not be invited to Manifest. But it’s not actually an example of prejudice against Jews specifically except to the extent that Jews are also not Muslim.
Tlaib: Well I wouldn’t use that phrase, and I’m inclined to say using it is antisemitic yes, because at the very least it creates an ambiguity about whether you mean it in the genocidal way. Having said that, given that there is a very clear non-genocidal reading, I do not think it is a clear example of hate speech in quite the same sense as Hanania’s animals remark. I’d also say that my strength of feeling against Hanania is influenced by the fact that he was an out and out white nationalist for years, and that he remains hostile to the civil rights act that ended Jim Crow and democratised the South.. If you can show me that Tlaib is or was a Hamas supporter, then yes, I’d say her saying “from the river to the sea” is at least as bad as Hanania’s animals comment. (Worse inherently, since that would make it a call for violence and genocide/ethnic cleansing. But I do think Palestinians are subject to forces that make resisting bigotry harder vis-a-vis Israelis, than it is for white Americans to resist white nationalism.)
*For example, I think the NYT should have fired Sarah Jeong even though her racist comments were “only” about whites, if you know that incident.you
My claim is that the Manifest organizers should have the right to invite him even if he’d said that more recently. But appreciate you giving your perspective, since I did ask for that (just clarifying the “agree” part).
I have some object-level views about the relative badness but my main claim is more that this isn’t a productive type of analysis for a community to end up doing, partly because it’s so inherently subjective, so I support drawing lines that help us not need to do this analysis (like “organizers are allowed to invite you either way”).
Most Israeli Jews would call the phrase “From the river to the see” antisemitic. Myself being relatively on the far left in that group, and having spoken a lot with Palestinians online before the war, I’d argue that it’s antisemitic/calls for ethnic cleansing of Jews around 50% of the time. I would not prosecute or boycott someone based on it alone.
Edit: but most Israelis might choose not to come to a conference that would platform such a person, I guess. I think this is a different situation from the current real controversy, but make of it what you will.