Interesting post! Something I’ve thought about in a different direction is how EA seems to share the dedication to doing good of many religions but not the emphasis on a particular practices aimed at reducing greed/negative traits and building discipline/compassion/positive traits/emotional resources that help sustain such altruistic action. For example, various forms of meditation like loving-kindness and insight, reflection, etc.
In a way I suppose EA does rather heavily emphasise against greed in a few directions (giving what we can, earning to give) but it certainly doesn’t emphasise many personal behaviours beyond (adjacently perhaps) rationalism.
I do wonder if, as you say, some of the strength of effective religious movements was an emphasis on personal behaviours the community should strive to include and praise. This was somewhat Tyler’s point about being Mormon—they have a bunch of behaviours that push the group towards long-term success (for instance, banning alcohol consumption from members and encouraging lots of children).
Yeah, that’s a good point about giving. Giving itself can be a transformative action. I guess if I were to put it another way, EA shares many religions’ emphasis on works/charity but not necessarily experiences and practices of ‘faith’/transcendence.
In terms of the Mormon stuff, I think importing cultural habits is maybe different but adjacent to what I mean. Although maybe some aren’t that separate. It seems like abstaining from alcohol exists in a lot of different religions so maybe that particular behavior was found to be helpful in some way to personal transformation (I am assuming certain kinds of personal growth as a kind of distinct goal to be paired with charity/good deeds in the world). And in terms of having kids, it seems like many religions distinguish between a “lay” path that may or may not emphasize having kids, and a more hardcore “monastic” (to use Buddhist terminology) path that emphasizes celibacy as a virtue to clear the mind and have more time to focus on transformation and service.
We think all three perspectives have something to offer, but when our readers talk about wanting to “make a difference,” they’re most interested in the first of these perspectives — changing the world for the better.
We agree this focus makes sense — we don’t just want to avoid doing wrong, or live honest lives, but actually leave the world better than we found it. And there is a lot we can all do to get better at that. …
In our essay on your most important decision, we argued that some career paths open to you will do hundreds of times more to make the world a better place than others. So it seems really important to figure out what those paths are.
In contrast, it’s often a lot easier to know whether a path violates someone’s rights or involves virtuous behaviour (most career paths seem pretty OK on those fronts), so there’s less to gain from focusing there.
In fact, even people who emphasise moral rules and virtue agree that if you can make others better off, that’s a good thing to do, and that it’s even better to make more people better off than fewer. (And in general we think deontologists and utilitarians agree a lot more than people think.) …
Since there seem to be big opportunities to make people better off, and some seem to be better than others, we should focus on finding those.
I think building skills to become better at research and building skills to become better at things like dealing with stress or interacting with others are both important to having a greater positive impact on the world, so my point wasn’t exactly about deontology vs consequentialism.
And I’d guess EA probably has more concrete consensus on the former than the latter.
Interesting post! Something I’ve thought about in a different direction is how EA seems to share the dedication to doing good of many religions but not the emphasis on a particular practices aimed at reducing greed/negative traits and building discipline/compassion/positive traits/emotional resources that help sustain such altruistic action. For example, various forms of meditation like loving-kindness and insight, reflection, etc.
In a way I suppose EA does rather heavily emphasise against greed in a few directions (giving what we can, earning to give) but it certainly doesn’t emphasise many personal behaviours beyond (adjacently perhaps) rationalism.
I do wonder if, as you say, some of the strength of effective religious movements was an emphasis on personal behaviours the community should strive to include and praise. This was somewhat Tyler’s point about being Mormon—they have a bunch of behaviours that push the group towards long-term success (for instance, banning alcohol consumption from members and encouraging lots of children).
Yeah, that’s a good point about giving. Giving itself can be a transformative action. I guess if I were to put it another way, EA shares many religions’ emphasis on works/charity but not necessarily experiences and practices of ‘faith’/transcendence.
In terms of the Mormon stuff, I think importing cultural habits is maybe different but adjacent to what I mean. Although maybe some aren’t that separate. It seems like abstaining from alcohol exists in a lot of different religions so maybe that particular behavior was found to be helpful in some way to personal transformation (I am assuming certain kinds of personal growth as a kind of distinct goal to be paired with charity/good deeds in the world). And in terms of having kids, it seems like many religions distinguish between a “lay” path that may or may not emphasize having kids, and a more hardcore “monastic” (to use Buddhist terminology) path that emphasizes celibacy as a virtue to clear the mind and have more time to focus on transformation and service.
I interpret 80000 Hours as explaining this in their What is social impact? page (emphasis mine):
I think building skills to become better at research and building skills to become better at things like dealing with stress or interacting with others are both important to having a greater positive impact on the world, so my point wasn’t exactly about deontology vs consequentialism.
And I’d guess EA probably has more concrete consensus on the former than the latter.