I quite strongly dislike “drama” around things, rather than just trying to figure them out. Much of the HLI “drama” seems to be reading various comments and sharing that there is disagreement rather than attempts to turn uncertainty into clarity.
My response to this is “what are we doing”? Why aren’t there more attempts to figure out what we should actually believe as a group here? I really don’t understand why there is much discussion but so little (to my mind) attempt at synthesis.
I don’t see a clear path forward to consensus here. The best I can see, which I have tried to nudge in my last two long posts on the main thread, is “where do we go from here given the range of opinions held?”
As I see it, the top allegation that has been levied is intentional research misconduct,[1] with lesser included allegations of reckless research misconduct, grossly negligent research (mis)conduct, and negligent research conduct. A less legal-metaphory way to put it is: the biggest questions are whether HLI had something on the scale in favor of SM, if so was it a finger or a fist on the scale, and if so did HLI know (or should it have known) that the body part was on the scale.
It’s unsurprising that most people don’t want to openly deliberate about misconduct allegations, especially not in front of the accusers and the accused. There’s a reason juries deliberate in secret in an attempt to reach consensus.
I think that hesitation to publicly deliberate is particularly pronounced for those who fall in the middle part of the continuum,[2] which unfortunately contributes to the “pretty serious misconduct” and “this is way overblown” positions being overrepresented in comments compared to where I think they truly fall among the Forum community. Moreover, most of us lack the technical background and experience to lead a deliberation process.
What procedures would you suggest to move toward consensus?[3]
If someone thinks HLI is guilty of deceptive conduct (or conduct that is so reckless to be hard to distinguish from intentional deception), they are likely going to feel less discomfort raking HLI over the coals (“because they deserve it” and because maintaining epistemic defense against that kind of conduct is particularly important). If someone thinks this whole thing is a nothingburger, saying so wouldn’t seem emotionally difficult.
Properly used, anonymous polling can reveal a consensus that exists (as long as there’s no ballot stuffing) . . . but isn’t nearly as useful in developing a consensus. If you attempt to iterate the questions, you’re likely to find that more and more of the voting pool will be partisans on one side of the dispute or the other, so subsequent rounds will reflect community consensus less and less.
I quite strongly dislike “drama” around things, rather than just trying to figure them out. Much of the HLI “drama” seems to be reading various comments and sharing that there is disagreement rather than attempts to turn uncertainty into clarity.
My response to this is “what are we doing”? Why aren’t there more attempts to figure out what we should actually believe as a group here? I really don’t understand why there is much discussion but so little (to my mind) attempt at synthesis.
I don’t see a clear path forward to consensus here. The best I can see, which I have tried to nudge in my last two long posts on the main thread, is “where do we go from here given the range of opinions held?”
As I see it, the top allegation that has been levied is intentional research misconduct,[1] with lesser included allegations of reckless research misconduct, grossly negligent research (mis)conduct, and negligent research conduct. A less legal-metaphory way to put it is: the biggest questions are whether HLI had something on the scale in favor of SM, if so was it a finger or a fist on the scale, and if so did HLI know (or should it have known) that the body part was on the scale.
It’s unsurprising that most people don’t want to openly deliberate about misconduct allegations, especially not in front of the accusers and the accused. There’s a reason juries deliberate in secret in an attempt to reach consensus.
I think that hesitation to publicly deliberate is particularly pronounced for those who fall in the middle part of the continuum,[2] which unfortunately contributes to the “pretty serious misconduct” and “this is way overblown” positions being overrepresented in comments compared to where I think they truly fall among the Forum community. Moreover, most of us lack the technical background and experience to lead a deliberation process.
What procedures would you suggest to move toward consensus?[3]
In my view, this allegation has been made in a slightly veiled manner, but clearly enough that it is counts as having been alleged.
If someone thinks HLI is guilty of deceptive conduct (or conduct that is so reckless to be hard to distinguish from intentional deception), they are likely going to feel less discomfort raking HLI over the coals (“because they deserve it” and because maintaining epistemic defense against that kind of conduct is particularly important). If someone thinks this whole thing is a nothingburger, saying so wouldn’t seem emotionally difficult.
Properly used, anonymous polling can reveal a consensus that exists (as long as there’s no ballot stuffing) . . . but isn’t nearly as useful in developing a consensus. If you attempt to iterate the questions, you’re likely to find that more and more of the voting pool will be partisans on one side of the dispute or the other, so subsequent rounds will reflect community consensus less and less.