Thanks for the comment! There’s a lot of good stuff to unpack here. First I should acknowledge that the subject matter in question is complex, and the post intentionally simplifies some issues just to keep it readable. (For instance, the post assumes intrinsicalism about moral status.) If you’d like, I’d love to schedule a call to discuss the topic in more detail.
I agree that Kagan faces both a double-counting worry and an arbitrariness worry. On the whole, I think these two concerns are decent reasons to reject Kagan’s view. However, if I were to put on my hierarchical hat, I would suggest that so long as the intrinsic characteristics that determine moral status are distinct from the characteristics that determine capacity for welfare, the double-counting worry can be avoided. (I think there are other, more complicated ways to try to sidestep the double-counting worry as well.) The arbitrariness worry is harder to handle, but if one is wedded to certain intuitions, then it might be a bullet worth biting. If appeal to differences in moral status is the only way to avoid obligations that one finds deeply counterintuitive, then the appeal isn’t necessarily arbitrary. (Taking off my hierarchical hat, I think Sebo’s review of Kagan’s book does a good job summarizing why we should be skeptical of the sort of intuitions Kagan consistently draws on.)
I also agree that one can endorse a hierarchy of characteristic moral value without endorsing Kagan’s view. (Kagan says as much in chapter two of his book.) In the post, I’ve tried to suggest that a hierarchy based on capacity for welfare is importantly distinct from a hierarchy based on Kagan-style moral status. I’m sympathetic to the view that ultimately moral status is context-sensitive or agent-relative or somehow multidimensional, but it’s not clear how much of practical value we lose by suppressing this complication. I’ll think more about it!
Thanks a lot for the response, Jason! It seems like we actually agree more than it seemed.
if I were to put on my hierarchical hat, I would suggest that so long as the intrinsic characteristics that determine moral status are distinct from the characteristics that determine capacity for welfare, the double-counting worry can be avoided.
Agreed. If we accept the possibility you suggest, then I can see how status-adjusted welfare doesn’t run into double-counting. The question is: what makes these status-conferring characteristics morally relevant if not their contribution to welfare? Some views, I suppose, hold that the mere possession of some intrinsically valuable features—supposedly, rationality, autonomy, being created by God, being human, and whatnot—determine moral status even if they don’t contribute to welfare. That’s a coherent kind of view, and perhaps you’re right that a view like this would not necessarily be arbitrary, but I have a hard time finding it plausible. I just don’t understand why some property should determine how to treat x if it has nothing to do with what can harm or benefit x.
If appeal to differences in moral status is the only way to avoid obligations that one finds deeply counterintuitive, then the appeal isn’t necessarily arbitrary.
Yeah, I understand the motivation behind Kagan’s move. His descriptions of the distributive implications of unitarianism do make it look like mice just can’t have the same moral status as human beings. But it doesn’t follow that the interests of mice should count less. Many other morally relevant facts might explain why we ought not to massively shift resources towards mice. But yes, I can see the appeal of the hierarchical views as a solution to these problems. However, we should be wary of which intuitions shape our response to those sorts of cases (as Sebo argues in his review), or we’re just going to construct a view that rationalizes whatever allocation of resources we find acceptable. Sometimes, Kagan’s reasoning sounds like: “Come on, we’re not going to help rats! Therefore they must have a much lower status than persons.”
I’m sympathetic to the view that ultimately moral status is context-sensitive or agent-relative or somehow multidimensional
Me too, very much so. As for practical value, I like Kagan’s eventual move towards “practical realism” a lot. There’s a similar move in Rachels (2004). A helpful way to think about this, for utilitarians, is in terms of R.M. Hare’s two levels of moral thinking, nicely developed for animals in Varner (2012).
Hi Nicolas,
Thanks for the comment! There’s a lot of good stuff to unpack here. First I should acknowledge that the subject matter in question is complex, and the post intentionally simplifies some issues just to keep it readable. (For instance, the post assumes intrinsicalism about moral status.) If you’d like, I’d love to schedule a call to discuss the topic in more detail.
I agree that Kagan faces both a double-counting worry and an arbitrariness worry. On the whole, I think these two concerns are decent reasons to reject Kagan’s view. However, if I were to put on my hierarchical hat, I would suggest that so long as the intrinsic characteristics that determine moral status are distinct from the characteristics that determine capacity for welfare, the double-counting worry can be avoided. (I think there are other, more complicated ways to try to sidestep the double-counting worry as well.) The arbitrariness worry is harder to handle, but if one is wedded to certain intuitions, then it might be a bullet worth biting. If appeal to differences in moral status is the only way to avoid obligations that one finds deeply counterintuitive, then the appeal isn’t necessarily arbitrary. (Taking off my hierarchical hat, I think Sebo’s review of Kagan’s book does a good job summarizing why we should be skeptical of the sort of intuitions Kagan consistently draws on.)
I also agree that one can endorse a hierarchy of characteristic moral value without endorsing Kagan’s view. (Kagan says as much in chapter two of his book.) In the post, I’ve tried to suggest that a hierarchy based on capacity for welfare is importantly distinct from a hierarchy based on Kagan-style moral status. I’m sympathetic to the view that ultimately moral status is context-sensitive or agent-relative or somehow multidimensional, but it’s not clear how much of practical value we lose by suppressing this complication. I’ll think more about it!
Thanks a lot for the response, Jason! It seems like we actually agree more than it seemed.
Agreed. If we accept the possibility you suggest, then I can see how status-adjusted welfare doesn’t run into double-counting. The question is: what makes these status-conferring characteristics morally relevant if not their contribution to welfare? Some views, I suppose, hold that the mere possession of some intrinsically valuable features—supposedly, rationality, autonomy, being created by God, being human, and whatnot—determine moral status even if they don’t contribute to welfare. That’s a coherent kind of view, and perhaps you’re right that a view like this would not necessarily be arbitrary, but I have a hard time finding it plausible. I just don’t understand why some property should determine how to treat x if it has nothing to do with what can harm or benefit x.
Yeah, I understand the motivation behind Kagan’s move. His descriptions of the distributive implications of unitarianism do make it look like mice just can’t have the same moral status as human beings. But it doesn’t follow that the interests of mice should count less. Many other morally relevant facts might explain why we ought not to massively shift resources towards mice. But yes, I can see the appeal of the hierarchical views as a solution to these problems. However, we should be wary of which intuitions shape our response to those sorts of cases (as Sebo argues in his review), or we’re just going to construct a view that rationalizes whatever allocation of resources we find acceptable. Sometimes, Kagan’s reasoning sounds like: “Come on, we’re not going to help rats! Therefore they must have a much lower status than persons.”
Me too, very much so. As for practical value, I like Kagan’s eventual move towards “practical realism” a lot. There’s a similar move in Rachels (2004). A helpful way to think about this, for utilitarians, is in terms of R.M. Hare’s two levels of moral thinking, nicely developed for animals in Varner (2012).