(trying to focus my comments on particular thing here, instead of a long comment[1] trying to cover everything. Also, I again want to thank the authors for breaking down the original post and continuing the object-level discussion)
EA and Leftist Philosophy: Détente or Decimation?
As noted by others, while this particular section of DEAB suggests that EA would be institutionally and epistemically improved by accepting more ‘deep critiques’, it does not suggest EA accept these critiques from any direction. I’d be very surprised if the authors thought that EA would be improved by seriously considering and updating on the thoughts of our right-wing critiques.[2]
In this post in particular, the relevant claims are:
EA is more likely to listen to a critique that is not critical of capitalism
The main approach to politics in EA is ‘liberal-technocratic’
It suggets “The Good it Promises, the Harm it Does” as an example of ‘deep critique’ that EA should engage with. Most, if not all perspectives in said book, criticise EA from an anti-capitalist perspecitve.
EA should “seriously engage with critiques of capitalist modernity”
EA funders should “enthusiastically fund deep critiques” (which I would assume take the form of the anticapitalist approaches above)
So where I agree with this line of thinking is that I think there is a strong ideological divide between modern leftism and current EA (because I think EA is an ideology is some respects, not just a question, and that’s ok). I think intellectual and public leftism is probably the largest source of criticism at the moment, and likely to be so in the future, and it is definitely worth EA investigating why that is, finding the key cruxes of disagreement, and making it clear where we think we can learn and where we reject leftist arguments and the key reasons why.
However, one of the reasons why I have ended up as an EA is that I find modern leftist epistemology and theodicy to be lacking. In disputes between, say, Hickel and Roser or Hickel and Smith, I’m not on the former’s side—I think his arguments (as far as I understand them) are lacking. The same go for anticapitalist critics who do post on the Forum.[3] I think this is because their arguments are bad, not because I’m pattern-matching or hiding behind ‘bad-epistemics’.
Take Crary’s “Against Effective Altruism”—an example I think ConcernedEAs would agree is a ‘deep critique’. Here’s an example of what she has to say about EA:
EA as a movement benefits from its embrace of those who ‘earn to give’, accumulating wealth in the economic arena that it leaves critically untouched. It is a textbook case of moral corruption.
Firstly, In terms of the institutional reforms suggested, I can’t think of any movement than would give ‘enthusiastic funding’ to critics who call the movement morally corrupt. Secondly, I don’t think Crary really argues for rejecting EA in the piece. She frames the critiques as ‘institutional’, ‘philosophical’, and ‘composite’ - but doesn’t really argue for it that much. Plenty of other authors are mentioned and referenced, but the article seems to me to assume that the anticapitalist critiques are correct and proceeding from there. Finally, I don’t think there’s much middle ground to be had between the worldviews of Crary and, say, MacAskill or Singer. Indeed, she ends the article by saying that for EA to accept the critiques she believes in, EA would cease to exist. And here I do agree. What EA should do, in my opinion, is explain clearly and convincingly why Crary is completely wrong.
In conclusion, I do agree that there is a lot of value in exploring the leftist critiques of EA, and I think there has been good EA work to reach out to leftist critics.[4] But I think the ConcernedEAs authors who are strongly sympathetic to these leftist critiques have the responsibility to spark the object-level debates rather than suggesting they be adopted for meta-level concerns, and those in EA who disagree with them should provide good reasons for doing so, and not hide behind accusations of ‘bad epistemics’ or ‘wokeness run amok’.
(trying to focus my comments on particular thing here, instead of a long comment[1] trying to cover everything. Also, I again want to thank the authors for breaking down the original post and continuing the object-level discussion)
EA and Leftist Philosophy: Détente or Decimation?
As noted by others, while this particular section of DEAB suggests that EA would be institutionally and epistemically improved by accepting more ‘deep critiques’, it does not suggest EA accept these critiques from any direction. I’d be very surprised if the authors thought that EA would be improved by seriously considering and updating on the thoughts of our right-wing critiques.[2]
In this post in particular, the relevant claims are:
EA is more likely to listen to a critique that is not critical of capitalism
The main approach to politics in EA is ‘liberal-technocratic’
It suggets “The Good it Promises, the Harm it Does” as an example of ‘deep critique’ that EA should engage with. Most, if not all perspectives in said book, criticise EA from an anti-capitalist perspecitve.
EA should “seriously engage with critiques of capitalist modernity”
EA funders should “enthusiastically fund deep critiques” (which I would assume take the form of the anticapitalist approaches above)
So where I agree with this line of thinking is that I think there is a strong ideological divide between modern leftism and current EA (because I think EA is an ideology is some respects, not just a question, and that’s ok). I think intellectual and public leftism is probably the largest source of criticism at the moment, and likely to be so in the future, and it is definitely worth EA investigating why that is, finding the key cruxes of disagreement, and making it clear where we think we can learn and where we reject leftist arguments and the key reasons why.
However, one of the reasons why I have ended up as an EA is that I find modern leftist epistemology and theodicy to be lacking. In disputes between, say, Hickel and Roser or Hickel and Smith, I’m not on the former’s side—I think his arguments (as far as I understand them) are lacking. The same go for anticapitalist critics who do post on the Forum.[3] I think this is because their arguments are bad, not because I’m pattern-matching or hiding behind ‘bad-epistemics’.
Take Crary’s “Against Effective Altruism”—an example I think ConcernedEAs would agree is a ‘deep critique’. Here’s an example of what she has to say about EA:
Firstly, In terms of the institutional reforms suggested, I can’t think of any movement than would give ‘enthusiastic funding’ to critics who call the movement morally corrupt. Secondly, I don’t think Crary really argues for rejecting EA in the piece. She frames the critiques as ‘institutional’, ‘philosophical’, and ‘composite’ - but doesn’t really argue for it that much. Plenty of other authors are mentioned and referenced, but the article seems to me to assume that the anticapitalist critiques are correct and proceeding from there. Finally, I don’t think there’s much middle ground to be had between the worldviews of Crary and, say, MacAskill or Singer. Indeed, she ends the article by saying that for EA to accept the critiques she believes in, EA would cease to exist. And here I do agree. What EA should do, in my opinion, is explain clearly and convincingly why Crary is completely wrong.
In conclusion, I do agree that there is a lot of value in exploring the leftist critiques of EA, and I think there has been good EA work to reach out to leftist critics.[4] But I think the ConcernedEAs authors who are strongly sympathetic to these leftist critiques have the responsibility to spark the object-level debates rather than suggesting they be adopted for meta-level concerns, and those in EA who disagree with them should provide good reasons for doing so, and not hide behind accusations of ‘bad epistemics’ or ‘wokeness run amok’.
Edit: It still became a long comment 😭 I’m trying my best ok!
I especially have in mind Richard Hanania’s recent critique, which I thoroughly disagreed with
I actually think that last post is really well-written, even if I do disagree with it
See this podcast from Garrison Lovely, and also this one by Rabbithole