Welp, this is it, this is my FTX , this is the thing that permanently makes me lose all faith In the EA movement. I am deleting my account on here after this message.
I value the work of other groups in the EA community shining a light on exploited animals like fish and invertebrates , that have been largely abandoned by traditional animal rights organizations.
But Every-time you gaze your eyes on “ coventional livestock” It feels like internal sabotage
I upvoted this despite not personally agreeing with it because I think it’s a good demonstration of the reputational risks associated with this strategy.
Same. I’ll reiterate what I said above: EAs may be at risk of seriously underestimating the friction that exists between animal work within and outside of EA. My worry is that if even the mention of the idea is enough to get this sort of reaction, I suspect things could get even more heated if EAs, in large numbers, were to enthusiastically support an open alliance with an industry that has a mediocre reputation. Not to mention the ways this may plausibly undermine EA’s credibility with environmentalists.
Another point (although something else that I need to sit with more) is that I’m not sure EA has anything interesting to offer the beef industry. That is, they don’t need EA to accomplish their goals, and we don’t have any leverage whatsoever from their perspective.
Welfare Footprint found: ”mortality in cage-free flocks is not inherently higher than those housed in conventional battery cage systems but rather declines as managers gain experience and knowledge over time. When comparisons are made between systems with similar levels of technological maturity, mortality is similar in different systems. [...] It is important to note that lower mortality or longer survival of hens is not necessarily a good indicator of health or welfare. What makes animals suffer is not necessarily what kills them: unhealthy individuals can suffer for extensive periods in caged conditions before succumbing to their fate, if they die at all.”[1]
“Cage-free aviaries were found to be clearly superior to conventional cages and furnished cages even soon after a transition to cage-free environments. Overall, an average of at least 275 hours of disabling pain, 2,313 hours of hurtful pain and 4,645 hours of annoying pain are prevented for each hen kept in an aviary instead of CC during her laying life, and 1,410 hours of hurtful pain and 4,065 hours of annoying pain prevented for each hen kept in an aviary instead of a FC during her laying life.”[2]
Welp, this is it, this is my FTX , this is the thing that permanently makes me lose all faith In the EA movement. I am deleting my account on here after this message.
I value the work of other groups in the EA community shining a light on exploited animals like fish and invertebrates , that have been largely abandoned by traditional animal rights organizations.
But Every-time you gaze your eyes on “ coventional livestock” It feels like internal sabotage
Wether it’s advocating for changes that Increase Chicken mortality https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mEoaEm9xRuVkX3nWggRPz700RU7_Z_QgRuEtQMWiMbM/edit
Or wanting everyone to stop advocating for animals and being vegan because meat eaters find it annoying https://www.amazon.com/How-Create-Vegan-World-Pragmatic/dp/1590565703/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?adgrpid=55616130466&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtICdBhCLARIsALUBFcHXj_Cq2z0IDy0Hgl82a5MGcaDZkhu9PtV4oc1NbhPRPeui0BhaRBwaAjT2EALw_wcB&hvadid=409977028744&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=9007235&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=10492759388869879236&hvtargid=kwd-335443252748&hydadcr=12157_11118205&keywords=how+to+create+a+vegan+world&qid=1671462334&sr=8-1
Or giving our money to junk food lobby groups that research suggests don’t help animals at all https://gfi.org/
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/public-health-nutrition/article/does-promoting-plantbased-products-in-veganuary-lead-to-increased-sales-and-a-reduction-in-meat-sales-a-natural-experiment-in-a-supermarket-setting/CB44968AAD1E86856D01CA47A7BC884
And now straight up advocating for a world in which animals are still bred and slaughtered as commodities
If I wanted to support groups in bed with the meat industry I would still be giving money to the HSUS
Next time i see the label “Effective Altruism” attached to anything , I’ ll interpret it as the warning colors it is.
I upvoted this despite not personally agreeing with it because I think it’s a good demonstration of the reputational risks associated with this strategy.
Same. I’ll reiterate what I said above: EAs may be at risk of seriously underestimating the friction that exists between animal work within and outside of EA. My worry is that if even the mention of the idea is enough to get this sort of reaction, I suspect things could get even more heated if EAs, in large numbers, were to enthusiastically support an open alliance with an industry that has a mediocre reputation. Not to mention the ways this may plausibly undermine EA’s credibility with environmentalists.
Another point (although something else that I need to sit with more) is that I’m not sure EA has anything interesting to offer the beef industry. That is, they don’t need EA to accomplish their goals, and we don’t have any leverage whatsoever from their perspective.
Welfare Footprint found:
”mortality in cage-free flocks is not inherently higher than those housed in conventional battery cage systems but rather declines as managers gain experience and knowledge over time. When comparisons are made between systems with similar levels of technological maturity, mortality is similar in different systems. [...] It is important to note that lower mortality or longer survival of hens is not necessarily a good indicator of health or welfare. What makes animals suffer is not necessarily what kills them: unhealthy individuals can suffer for extensive periods in caged conditions before succumbing to their fate, if they die at all.”[1]
“Cage-free aviaries were found to be clearly superior to conventional cages and furnished cages even soon after a transition to cage-free environments. Overall, an average of at least 275 hours of disabling pain, 2,313 hours of hurtful pain and 4,645 hours of annoying pain are prevented for each hen kept in an aviary instead of CC during her laying life, and 1,410 hours of hurtful pain and 4,065 hours of annoying pain prevented for each hen kept in an aviary instead of a FC during her laying life.”[2]
[1] https://welfarefootprint.org/2021/04/21/meta-analysis-mortality/
[2] https://welfarefootprint.org/laying-hens/