I feel like discussions about what we’d like social norms to be and (relatedly) how to react to “scandals” have an inherent dynamic that increases polarization. This often goes like this:
There’s a scandal or the possibility of a scandal and there’s a tradeoff to make with respect to several things of importance. (E.g., creating a welcoming and safe environment vs. fear that this devolves into a culture where 99% of people will end up cancelled eventually with no chance of redemption for increasingly less severe transgressions.) Many people have some opinion on where they would set this tradeoff, but different people would set the weights in different places. (And some people may just say things that they expect will be received well, increasing the momentum that the pendulum is currently swinging.) Moreover, people operate in different parts of the EA community and have widely different day-to-day experiences filtered by their personality, standing in the movement, preferred ways of socializing, things like gender or ethnicity, and so on. So, even if two people in some sense agreed that the ideal norms for the movement would set the tradeoff in one specific way, they may disagree, based on the different glimpses of the movement they catch, about where the pendulum is currently at.
Now, since people often care really strongly about what the norms should be, it can be quite distressing if someone wants the pendulum to be at a 60 degree angle and thinks it’s currently at a 120 degree angle, and then a person who wants it to be at the 120 angle comes and talks as though it’s already at the 60 degree angle. While these two people only differ by 60 degrees (one wants it at 60, the other at 120), it seems to them as though they differ by 120 degrees (they both think the pendulum is currently far away from them). This impression of vast differences will cause them to argue their case even more vehemently, which further amplifies the perceived difference until it feels like 180 degrees – total opposition.
I’m not sure what to do about this. One option could be to debate less where the pendulum is exactly in a movement-wide sense (since that’s impossible to begin with, given that the answer will be different for different parts of EA – both geographically and in terms of more subtle differences to what people see and experience – and also because no one should be confident about it given the limited glimpses that they catch). Instead, we could say things like “I think the pendulum is too far to the left in such and such situations (e.g., Bay area community house x).” Or, alternatively, we could focus more on what the movement should ideally look like. (E.g., maybe write down the reaction you’d like to see instead of focusing on why you don’t like other people’s reactions.) People will still disagree on these things, but maybe the disagreements will feel more like the 60 degrees rather than the doubled 120 degrees?
To make clear that one is making statements about where one wants the pendulum to be instead of where it’s currently at, I think it’s also useful to simply acknowledge all the values at stake in the tradeoff. This makes clear to others that you at least see where they’re coming from. It also makes clear that you’re not engaged in frantic pendulum-pushing where you think the pendulum has to move in a specific direction at all costs without worrying about how far it already went in some places.
Lastly, maybe it would be good if people thought about what sort of viewpoints they disagree with but still find “defensible.” I think it makes total sense to regard some viewpoints as indefensible and try to combat them and so on, but if we resort to that sort of reaction too quickly, then it becomes really difficult to coordinate on anything. Therefore, I often find it refreshing when people disagree in a way that makes clear that other perspectives are still heard and respected.
Great comment. I agree that the best way forward is acknowledging that different parts of EA have different values, and making sure community organizers/high status people in the movement are aware and sensitive of that sort of thing.
For instance in my local group, I think if an EA from SF came and started propositioning people for dates/discussing polyamory, that would seriously break our norms. Perhaps having more intentional communication between group organizers could help?
For instance maybe a mandatory meeting once or twice a year for all paid organizers in a nation where people can get and idea of what is kosher where. What are your thoughts here?
I feel like discussions about what we’d like social norms to be and (relatedly) how to react to “scandals” have an inherent dynamic that increases polarization. This often goes like this:
There’s a scandal or the possibility of a scandal and there’s a tradeoff to make with respect to several things of importance. (E.g., creating a welcoming and safe environment vs. fear that this devolves into a culture where 99% of people will end up cancelled eventually with no chance of redemption for increasingly less severe transgressions.) Many people have some opinion on where they would set this tradeoff, but different people would set the weights in different places. (And some people may just say things that they expect will be received well, increasing the momentum that the pendulum is currently swinging.) Moreover, people operate in different parts of the EA community and have widely different day-to-day experiences filtered by their personality, standing in the movement, preferred ways of socializing, things like gender or ethnicity, and so on. So, even if two people in some sense agreed that the ideal norms for the movement would set the tradeoff in one specific way, they may disagree, based on the different glimpses of the movement they catch, about where the pendulum is currently at.
Now, since people often care really strongly about what the norms should be, it can be quite distressing if someone wants the pendulum to be at a 60 degree angle and thinks it’s currently at a 120 degree angle, and then a person who wants it to be at the 120 angle comes and talks as though it’s already at the 60 degree angle. While these two people only differ by 60 degrees (one wants it at 60, the other at 120), it seems to them as though they differ by 120 degrees (they both think the pendulum is currently far away from them). This impression of vast differences will cause them to argue their case even more vehemently, which further amplifies the perceived difference until it feels like 180 degrees – total opposition.
I’m not sure what to do about this. One option could be to debate less where the pendulum is exactly in a movement-wide sense (since that’s impossible to begin with, given that the answer will be different for different parts of EA – both geographically and in terms of more subtle differences to what people see and experience – and also because no one should be confident about it given the limited glimpses that they catch). Instead, we could say things like “I think the pendulum is too far to the left in such and such situations (e.g., Bay area community house x).” Or, alternatively, we could focus more on what the movement should ideally look like. (E.g., maybe write down the reaction you’d like to see instead of focusing on why you don’t like other people’s reactions.) People will still disagree on these things, but maybe the disagreements will feel more like the 60 degrees rather than the doubled 120 degrees?
To make clear that one is making statements about where one wants the pendulum to be instead of where it’s currently at, I think it’s also useful to simply acknowledge all the values at stake in the tradeoff. This makes clear to others that you at least see where they’re coming from. It also makes clear that you’re not engaged in frantic pendulum-pushing where you think the pendulum has to move in a specific direction at all costs without worrying about how far it already went in some places.
Lastly, maybe it would be good if people thought about what sort of viewpoints they disagree with but still find “defensible.” I think it makes total sense to regard some viewpoints as indefensible and try to combat them and so on, but if we resort to that sort of reaction too quickly, then it becomes really difficult to coordinate on anything. Therefore, I often find it refreshing when people disagree in a way that makes clear that other perspectives are still heard and respected.
Great comment. I agree that the best way forward is acknowledging that different parts of EA have different values, and making sure community organizers/high status people in the movement are aware and sensitive of that sort of thing.
For instance in my local group, I think if an EA from SF came and started propositioning people for dates/discussing polyamory, that would seriously break our norms. Perhaps having more intentional communication between group organizers could help?
For instance maybe a mandatory meeting once or twice a year for all paid organizers in a nation where people can get and idea of what is kosher where. What are your thoughts here?